Impromptu testing default time should be change from 30 to 15

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by shadowslasher11, Aug 6, 2014.

  1. shadowslasher11

    aa shadowslasher11

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    As I've almost always seemed to notice, no one is ever around very long for impromptu testing. It's annoying to try and get information when your map is the 5th one down, and won't be tested until 2 hours later. Given that the circumstances are that no one rtv's or rounds end quickly.

    Impromptus should be quicker gameday's really. They're not really there to give you full feedback, but just enough to fix issues.

    15 minutes would be long enough for players to get feedback and playtime in, while keeping players interested on the next map and keeping the running time from dragging. Not so often will people still be playing after about 3 or 4 maps. And by the 5th timeslot, a lot, if not all people are gone. Ruining feedback for those who need it, but are at the very bottom of the list.
     
  2. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    I disagree. Since there's no map pack for imps, and players have to download the maps normally, often you're waiting ten minutes just to have enough players each map. Ultimately, Imps work better with fewer maps. We just have a lot of new maps right now. In future, try asking for your map to be played sooner, since you've not had the luck before.
     
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  3. Berry

    aa Berry if you read this you're a nerd

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    I completely and totally disagree too. Yes, people aren't around long but the mapper should know that's the risk of adding onto an already long imp.

    The imp earlier today had 8 maps, at 4-5ish for EU, on the EU server. It was at 7v7ish through most of it, up until maybe the 5th or 6th map.

    During US server imps, usually at 4-5ish US time there's 12v12 through around maybe 8 maps. If it's prime time and the player count drops, and there's maybe 4+ maps still to be tested then a reannounce could be in order.


    As well on the other side, I'll say from mapper experience and use my map within said imp. 30 minutes was enough for teams to have 2 rounds on either side which really wasn't enough for me to know whether things are balanced or not entirely.

    However, more than 30 minutes is certainly absurd from a player's standpoint for reasons I should not need to explain.
     
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  4. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    15 is too short, but 30 is too long. 20-25 is the sweet spot.
     
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  5. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    One thing a lot of designers need to learn too is patience.

    Sometimes, you need to have your map tested, 2, 3 ... hell, I've had some versions of rust tested 6 times. You don't have to update it after every.single.test.

    I know it's really exciting to have your map played by people, but you need to smart and patient about it. Putting it into a long test? Won't be that fantastic. Rushing a version out just to be in a test, but then forget clipping or VVIS? Yea, thats bad too. Be smart and be patient.

    As sword mentioned, there's a lot of new maps coming up and thats great. You can ask to be in an early time slot, but remember that it might not happen, and it won't surely happen every test. (On top of that, if anyone asks for an early time slot, be prepared to be respectful and nice... no one likes to be yelled at).
     
  6. shadowslasher11

    aa shadowslasher11

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    Forget it. Delete the thread.

    If I have a stupid fucking idea for original post, just delete it and spare me the lecture.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  7. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    actually, could we turn this into the next topic of public discussion?
     
  8. shadowslasher11

    aa shadowslasher11

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    Sure...I guess?
     
  9. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Actually, whoops, forgot that the last public discussion involved tests too. I'll cross post this over there to start a discussion on tests specifically, because the other discussion went on to chat about feedback mostly.
     
  10. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Having a civil discussion and disagreeing is not lecturing you. Two people outright disagreed. One called for a middle solution. One said it doesn't matter because you need to test a lot anyway.

    Nobody is attacking you. I don't know what went on in today's test, maybe you are a little on edge or peeved about something. Regardless, calm down and let the discussion take the course it will.
    I like to think if there is anything TF2M has, it is people who can just talk to each other and throw ideas back and forth and not get mad over disagreements, like so much of internet culture has become.

    On the topic: I know I rarely play anymore, but from what little I've seen people need to be more willing to jump ahead to the next map if you've already played out a lot of rounds on a fast running map or if the author waives the rest of their testing because they have seen enough. Whether it is RTV or the mapchangerguy forcing it. Worry less about "maps should play for X" and be more dynamic. Not all maps are created equal. If one has played out its usefulness then move on.
     
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  11. Doktor Richter

    Doktor Richter L3: Member

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    For example: my unfinished, orphaned example map-prefab-thing I made for snorrow that you guys ran for some reason :p. Glad you got a good 3 minutes of fun out of it though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  12. shadowslasher11

    aa shadowslasher11

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    Because I hate feeling like an idiot. I've stuck myself in so many communities that no one will listen to lower ranked users, and will only listen to the upper ranked users, or the admins. Some where even I've suggested the idea, people completely turn down the idea, and then someone of higher status goes and suggests it completely avoiding the fact I made the idea and they get credit for it.

    People take time to listen to others, but I don't see many people outside of a small circle to listen to me all that often. Basically making me a pissed off, frustrated, ego-filled control freak. I believe everyone should listen to me, then surprise, no one does. If people don't like an idea, I'd just prefer it sink rather than people try to tell me how I'm wrong.
     
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  13. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Well, those are exactly the places I try to avoid and think we are better than. You shouldn't feel like an idiot. There are good reasons for both short and long map durations.

    I'm definitely one of those "upper rank" users (not that you were addressing me, or even TF2M) that a lot of people seem to praise in all things but there are still plenty that will disagree with my ideas of things. Personally I've ran into new people here who surprise me with what they know/do so I try not to judge anyone by how senior they are. We've had people show up and drop a gorgeous near-complete map with their first post and people will appreciate it all the same as YM finishing another map.
     
  14. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I'm listening, and always do*. So lets have a discussion, here or in the other thread..



    * except that one time I had an ear infection.....
     
  15. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Why would you use a screen-reader? :confused:
     
  16. wareya

    wareya L7: Fancy Member

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    This is one of those things where it's okay to be wrong, specifically because there's no way that the people you're recommending it to could mistakenly do something foolish. It's not because you're stupid, but because they're blessed with excellent domain knowledge.

    I agree that there are people who take 10 minutes to download maps and that the map testing is definitely longer than ideal in order to match with that. However, I think that necessarily lengthening each map isn't the perfect idea. In an ideal world where we can do exactly what we want, we would extend the maps based on how large the map is, or we would start/reset the map timer once the number of people connected but not ingame (implies they're downloading or such) drops below a certain amount. Also, each map should be shorter when the server is excessively underpopulated, but that's even harder.
     
  17. fauks

    fauks L2: Junior Member

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    Just chill out dude. This is a community of people making virtual stuff for a game. No need to get so worked up about anything on this site ever.
     
  18. Turbo Lover

    aa Turbo Lover Fight me under Glasgow Central Station

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    I don't want shorter tests because I find it easier to give feedback after playing a map for longer, if we had something like I dunno, regular marathon tests where we play a single map for a few hours, I could get behind shortening the time we play maps in impromptu tests. But as it is now, I would find it really sucky.

    On that note, we should have something like regular marathon tests. No idea how it'd work, but we should have them.
     
  19. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    More regular marathon tests were something that the staff had discussed a little while ago as a possibility.

    If you have a map you think needs a marathon test (don't make every test a marathon test :p), let the admins know when you'd like to do it and make an event post in the server event subforum. We'll get you hooked up with an announcement and get the server set to the right map for however long you want the map to go.
     
  20. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    not testing your map near every day would help with more people getting into imps

    looking at you doom
     
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