I wish this were real with all my engy heart.

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by ryodoan, Mar 20, 2008.

  1. ryodoan

    ryodoan Resident Bum

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    Man... If I could have one thing added to the game, this might be it

    [ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=OsF0uefXGj8"]Youtube - Flamethrower Sentry[/ame]
     
  2. Narkissus

    Narkissus L5: Dapper Member

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    I dunno, very short range, easy to kill it.. way too easy.
    But still perhaps thats one of the engineers upgrades!
     
  3. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    I was thinking the other day that I would love the option to, instead of upgrading to the normal level 3 sentry, keep it as level 2 but add a device that would cause anything nearby to catch on fire if it got sapped (including the engineer, in the spirit of fairness).
     
  4. ryodoan

    ryodoan Resident Bum

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    But see, thats because your not thinking like an engineer, you would not place this guarding a large, open room, instead you would put this in a confined space like around a bend in a tunnel, or protecting the entrance to a base. It would do more damage at close range to an attacker but be more vulnerable to long range attacks.

    One of the engineer upgrades I would want to see is the ability to build 3x level 1 turrets instead of 1x level 3 turret.
     
  5. phatal

    phatal L6: Sharp Member

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    I love that turret.

    I really like the idea of 3 level 1 sentries. I'd say 3 level ones are much better than 1 lvl 3. With placement it would be really hard to get all 3.
     
  6. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    Maybe this might be true in rare situations, where you're trying to guard an area not frequently traveled by the enemy. I've seen plenty of games where 3 engies all rush in and place three level 1 turrets and they all get completely destroyed in seconds, where if they had pooled their metal and created one level 3 turret, it would have survived, or at least taken down a couple enemies before getting blown up.
     
  7. ryodoan

    ryodoan Resident Bum

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    Yes, but that is only really a problem in a couple situations:
    1. Start of the game when the first enemy wave is coming and the rest of your team does not hold them back.
    2. Just after having your defenses smashed and starting to rebuild.
    But you also have to look at it as now, while you had 3 level 1 turrets and 3 engineers none of them had metal left to repair their sentries since they were busy building them. Also you had 3 engineers, that would be 9 level 1 turrets now.

    However, that said i do agree that in the end it would probably not be as efficient at killing as a level 3 sentry, and would probably be easier to destroy than a level 3 as well. However, now that people are getting good at destroying sentries, I think 3 level 1's would instead work better at slowing down an enemy advance. Instead of just having to poke your head around a corner a couple times to destroy one sentry, you now need to poke your head around a lot to destroy three sentries.

    All together, I would rather have this flame turret than 3x level 1 turrets.

    Or, a new kind of turret that we could have 3 off, say a 1 gattling cannon turret, so instead of having 2 gattling cannons per Level 2 / Level 3, you now can build 3x Level 1.5 turrets that have a gattling cannon turret, or something like that.
     
  8. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    I'm still not sure I agree with this. Level 1 sentries are extremely weak. My experience indicates just about every class can go toe-to-toe against a level 1 sentry and win. Poking your head around the corner is even easier, particularly since you can see where the engy is and shoot at the ones he can't repair right away. Even if all three of them are shooting at the opponent at once, he's taking less damage than if it were a single level 3 sentry. If he's got a medic healing him from behind the corner, the sentries are as good as gone even without an uber.

    About the only real advantage I can see of having 3 level 1s is that you can spread them out to make sure one spy can't just run up and disable 100% of your defensive fire with a single sapper.
     
  9. Narkissus

    Narkissus L5: Dapper Member

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    I dunno, as a soldier its extremely easy to take out a sentry, especially if they are just around a corner, shoot the ground near it while it cant see you and it usually kills everything quite nicely. And that would make this sentry still crap, other then one kill randomly as someone rushes past the corner before they realize its there.

    As for level one sentries, thats a load, i can run up and bonesaw a level one sentry to death before it even kills me, in a wide open room. Whereas with the higher level ones you atleast get lots of pushback as well. although i have seen some punched to death by a heavy before.
     
  10. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    As a pyro I can easily kill a lvl 1 sg whilst lvl 2 I need to know its there before I attack and I need to come from a behind angle, but its quite doable. A lvl 3 sg takes quite a bit of skill to take down as a pyro but I've done it many times and I'm sure many times in the future. However it always depends on where the sg is, if its in a good location its easy picking but if its got a really good spot to attack from I've got no chance. SGs need to be placed in the right place to be effective, I doubt that a flamethrower sg would be of any real use. I do, however, like the idea of a sg that has a defence mechanism to defend against sapping, of course it would needto hurt any player that happened to be near it to make it fair.
     
  11. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    engis are overpowered, sentry upgrades would ruin the game
     
  12. Scotland Tom

    Scotland Tom L6: Sharp Member

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    Engies are not overpowered. When a skilled pyro can take down sentires, and any halfway decent demoman, soldier or heavy/medic team can take them down as well, the engineer is hardly overpowered. The only engineers that may seem overpowered are the skilled ones who can put themselves in the best positions. Even then, it's not the class that's overpowered, it's the skill of the engineer.
     
  13. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    my entire message, the one before yours totally disproves this. A pyro can take down lvl 3 senteries... thats someone using flame alone can take down one of those rocket firing minigun machines.
    Engineers aren't over powered, they are very well balanced and as cool as extra additions to SGs would be they would probably end up hugely imbalenced because we havent got the resources to test them thouroughly like valve do. You know why the new medic stuff is taking so long to come thought the pipeline? because they are making sure they don't imbalence the game. And although they may be months overdue I have every confidence in valve that they will keep the game as balanced as it is now.
     
  14. DJive

    aa DJive Cake or Death?

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    I've never had a problem taking out a sentry placed anywhere on a Valve map as a Heavy. They do a great job like Youme said to balance the game out.
     
  15. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    My favourite class is Pyro and you can't take down lvl 3 sentrys. You only can if the sentry is near a corner, but trying to kill a sentry running to it is complete suicide, the bullets stops you.

    BTW I was not talking about that. I'm talking about the spy vs engis. Spys (my 2nd favourite class) are supposed to be the ones who kill sentrys, deserve a separate mention of the difficulty of this class, almost all the time is impossible to take down the sentrys. And don't tell me "you have no spy skills" cause is not true.

    There are 2 ways for destroying the sentrys:
    1)put the sapper first and then kill the engi. Yeah, it's supposed to be easy but it's not, backstabs are difficult when you have an engi (or more + rest of the team) running to repair the sentry and hitting with the wrench. Backstabs are sometimes buggy, and the funny thing about that if you want an instant kill you have to hit them in the back, but an engi will kill a spy with 1 or 2 wrench hits, and it has the biggest critical rate, so almost all the time 1 hit will kill you wherever it hits you.

    2) killing the engi and then put the sapper before the sentry turns back. 80% of the times is suicide with lvl 2 and lvl 3 sentrys.

    That's why I call them overpowered.

    Sorry about my bad english
     
  16. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    You do realize that chain sapping a sentry will kill it in 2-3 saps, regardless of how much the engineer bangs on it, right? I also speak from experience when I say the crit rate on the wrench is nowhere near what you describe. Believe me, I wish it was, but it's not.

    As far as dealing with an engineer when he has teammates around, well, there's the balance. The way to beat an engy who has supportive teammates is to become a spy who has supportive teammates. Coordinate with your team so that they can come in guns blazing once you've placed the sapper, and they'll be able to take it down before the engineer has a chance to remove it.
     
  17. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    chain sapping will kill the dispensor, not the sentry, engis are always repairing them, and they will kill you before you can destroy them.

    And yes, I know wrench is arround 16% critical rate, but 1 normal hit does lot of damage and can kill a spy easy.

    And yes, coordination is the key, and belive me I try, but nobody wants to hear spys, they pay lot of attention to medic ubers but not to spys. I'm trying it all the time but seems I'm always on an idiot team.

    I'll think engi is uberpowered until valve fix buggy backstabs and sappers damage or health.
     
  18. Fireman

    Fireman L4: Comfortable Member

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    If you're going to be chain sapping, that implies that you're going for the sentry before the engie, so your disguise will still be good and the sentry itself won't be giving you too much trouble. If there's two engies repairing the sentry, then you definitely won't be able to get it down in time, and should either go for an engie backstab....or go find yourself another target.

    You're most likely not going to find many willing to coordinate with a lone spy on a pub server. Try playing on some clan servers for better luck, those usually (in my experience, anyway) have people that are more experienced in working together as a team and coordinating assaults.

    Engies are fine imo, they really shine when paired with a good defense, while not being too powerful for a strong offense to overrun.
     
  19. Narkissus

    Narkissus L5: Dapper Member

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    I play spy mainly and it is quite easy to kill an engy then sap a sentry before it even turns around, either you got lag issues or your trying to do things while the sentry is pointing right at your head.

    Also a pyro can kill a sentry easily by running circles around it, ive done it as a scout too, you can run circles around it and it has trouble keeping up with you so it doesnt shoot.
     
  20. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    Ok I think you haven't understand me. I'm telling that engi vs spy is unbalanced because some things need to be fixed on spys, the most important of them is the buggy backstabs. I'm happy because I've just have pwned as spy and I've equaled my point record (17), but sometimes you want to take down an engi base and jump on top of an engi, backstab him on the head and nothing happens.