i am afraid of providing a bad experience for players

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by wbuilder, Jul 26, 2015.

  1. wbuilder

    wbuilder L1: Registered

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    i am fairly new to the world of mapping and i have spent the past months learning and experimenting in hammer so im all prepared yo start working on my map. but i am worried of providing an overall bad experience for players. does anyone know of some tips and tricks to help me sensibly approach and design a map for tf2?:)
     
  2. RaVaGe

    aa RaVaGe

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    You can be the most experimented guy that it wouldn't change a thing, some people will enjoy your map and some won't, don't be scared about what people think about your map and accept every feedback.

    It's all about having fun and improving.
     
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  3. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Make something you think works and presume will be fun. Then get it tested and figure out what works and what doesn't. Identify these issues and improve on it until you feel like you could make a much better map by starting a new one rather than trying to improve on something that may have too many big flaws with it (being able to recognize these flaws means you're improving.)

    Take that knowledge and move onto your next project. Rinse and repeat until you are making solid maps.

    Very rarely are A1 maps amazing. They generally all have issues, no matter how experienced the mapper is.
     
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  4. wbuilder

    wbuilder L1: Registered

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    thanks
     
  5. worMatty

    aa worMatty Repacking Evangelist

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    I'm still taking my first steps in to making a 'proper' map, myself. I've never put out one of my own new maps before. I was put off for a long time because I didn't want to make something bad. But I realised that everyone's first work is bad, you just don't see it. It doesn't mean you are a bad mapper if you make something bad, it just means you need more experience or need to change something. If you carry on working on something, taking your feedback seriously and changing things over time, eventually you will have a good map.

    My biggest piece of advice to anyone making their first map is not to overscale it. I tend to make my maps 1.5 times the scale they should be, and I end up in tight spots where I have long sightlines and boring open areas. Some people like to place spawn points in Hammer to simulate the size of a player, and I think that does help sometimes to remind yourself not to go over the top.

    I used to want to block everything out in 128 but that can lead to overscaling very easily. 1x 128 is good for narrow walkways. 2x128 is good for a compact corridor. 3x128 is a nice average size. If you go beyond that you might find you are mapping for giants and have trouble filling things in with detail.

    Try to come up with a theme for your map in your head before you set out building it. Get some playable areas properly planned. Imagine what kind of interesting architectural things your theme could naturally create. When you build it, keep it simple, don't spend time on detailing unless it's necessary to highlight an objective or provide context, and try not to disallow certain kinds of play unless you feel it could be overwhelming. For example, building places for engineers is fun but if they get too much cover, their sentries could cause a real problem in the game. Keep sniper sightlines at 2000 units max in open areas, 2500 units max where there is lots of cover. Sentry range is 1100 units radius so try to plan around that sometimes. Provide two or three routes to a place as a rule of thumb. Make sure you have plenty of light during your alpha stages and don't compile in HDR until beta.

    Test your spawn rooms and resupply lockers before you submit your map for public testing.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
  6. Narpas

    Narpas L4: Comfortable Member

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    Don't underscale either. My first map was WAY underscaled. grazr made a nice tutorial on scale:
    http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=12605

    But yeah, probably the best way to become better is to practice, accept criticism, and learn where you could improve. So putting out something that is bad doesn't matter, as long as you learn something from the experience.
     
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  7. Vincent

    aa Vincent 🔨 Grandmaster Lizard Wizard Jedi 🔨

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    Learning to distinguish criticism from blind rage is also a good skill. Learning not to take it emotionally as well.

    I can't tell you how many times I've had non-descript "this maps bad 0/10" in the demo's for my maps. All it does is make me hate that person but you learn to swallow it, ignore their useless crap and move on.
     
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  8. wbuilder

    wbuilder L1: Registered

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    i think i can handle criticism but how do i go about planning my map?
     
  9. wbuilder

    wbuilder L1: Registered

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    ok thanks
     
  10. Davekillerish

    aa Davekillerish Lvl O: Orange Member

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    I dont care about what others think. ~Said the bad mapper
    I do care about what others think to an extent. ~Said the great mapper
    Im scared of what others think, so should I do this? ~Said the unguided mapper
    Feedback is important for maps, I myself have 1 map that is being over tested in beta.
    I am getting as much feedback as possible, regardless of whether is positive or negative.
    What's good is good, and what's bad is bad. The bad, can be fixed and the good can be noted and repeated.
    Unless your GabeN himself, your first map won't be perfect, you'll love it, leave it and in a while look back and hate it.
     
  11. HQDefault

    aa HQDefault ...what

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    Let me put it to you this way:

    Whatever map you make, someone probably made one worse.

    I once uploaded a map that was basically a box with a wall in the middle.