KotH htp

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Sylver, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. Sylver

    Sylver L1: Registered

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    I made this map as both a speedmapping test and to see if this type of game mode could work in TF2.

    It's basically koth but with a slight twist. Instead of holding the point for a additive 3 minutes, one team has to hold the point for a whole minute and 30 seconds.

    I came up with this idea a couple months ago but could never figure out how to get the logic working until the recent update that added these helpful new inputs to the tf_logic_koth entities.

    So hopefully this works out, if not, maybe the map will do good as a regular koth, idk.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  2. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound L6: Sharp Member

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    This is a bad idea IMO.

    Since this requires that one team is overpowered.
    If both teams are equally strong the game will go forever.

    The regular KotH fixes this, by setting a time limit to 6 minutes (if the CP got capped once).
    The best KotH game IMO is, when the timer of the loosing team is under 10 seconds
    and if there were lots of owner changes to the point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  3. Sylver

    Sylver L1: Registered

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    I should probably note that I picked the time for the cap from my competitive experience where 50% of the time teams manage to run down half their time on a single cap.

    So I assumed an average pub team could hold the point for like a minute and 30? Probably a bad assumption on my part, but I guess I'll see.
     
  4. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound L6: Sharp Member

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    So you actually want to force one team to not having fun for one minute and 30 seconds?
    The regular KotH gives the attackers a little advantage, so they can recap the point easier.
    But if you would do that, the game would last forever.
    If you wouldn't do that, the attacker team won't have fun, because the would get dominated by the stronger defending team.

    Here are some thoughts about the layout:
    (I haven't seen it ingame, so some assumptions could be wrong)
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Sylver

    Sylver L1: Registered

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    My thinking was that if the push/hold concept worked in 5cp, it could work in koth. You bring up a lot of good points, but I think competitive teams might be able to avoid the perma-stalemate in the same fashion that they avoid it with 5cp maps. Basically, I designed this map with too much of a competitive mindset and its probably gonna be really bad in pubs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  6. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound L6: Sharp Member

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    Then tf2maps.net probably isn't the best test platform. :p
    IMO this is still not right from the basic point of view, that both teams should have fun.
    But in the end you still have to test it, and everything I'm saying now is speculation.
     
  7. Fish 2.0

    Fish 2.0 L6: Sharp Member

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    I'm not sure why people are saying that the other team won't have fun. Sure it could get a little tiring after a while but it's exactly the same as normal kjoth apart from the other team has to stay in control of the point for 1:30 and not 3.

    From my view it's exactly the same and the tides can be switched equally, it's just a fact of endurance - as soon as the attacking team has to attack for more the 3 minutes in total (they loose the point, get control for a few seconds then loose it again summing up to nearly 3 minutes of attacking time) it would get boring.

    To counter this you could decrease the time required in order to make the game much faster and give each team a better chance of winning. I would say hold it for 30-45 seconds to win and have an extremely short respawn time on the loosing team.

    However because of the potential for such short rounds (a round could last less than a minute) you may want to add something like a saw or train around the point so that the defending team can be killed accidentally or randomly giving the attacking team a chance to take the point back. I think a 5 minute timer until a stalemate would work, but only actual player testing could tell.
     
  8. Sylver

    Sylver L1: Registered

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    Updated to a2, fixed up the layout a bit. Gonna try to get this tested in an impromptu one of these days.
     
  9. colacan

    colacan L5: Dapper Member

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    This thing reminds me of Doomsday.
     
  10. PoignardAzur

    PoignardAzur L2: Junior Member

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    I had an idea for your map : what about giving it a timer of +/- 3 minutes for each team, that would only reset when it'd be down to less than 30s ? It would mean that, while the first 2 min 30 would be "definitively consumed", you would still have to keep the point for 30 seconds with no interruption.
     
  11. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound L6: Sharp Member

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    PoignardAzur, your idea is too complicated and can't be explained to the player by the HUD.
    It would confuse the player, and until he knows whats going on, he probably gave up.