How does this mode sound?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by luxatile, Jan 20, 2009.

  1. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    I've been trying to come up with ideas for what I could make as my next map/side project/something. I've been thinking about Z33W13R's linear arena mode, but I got a bit off track (thinking about an arena/TC mix) and this idea popped up in my head.

    Territory Control with one Control Point per round.

    Yeah, it's probably old, but no one has ever made a map with this mode...as far as I know. Now, this is how the points are laid out in TC...

    Code:
         XC - XC - RC
    BC - XC - XC
    Legend:
    X - Neutral base
    B - BLU base
    R - RED base
    C - Control Point

    Now, here's my idea.

    Code:
         X - C - X - RC
         |       |
         C       C
         |       |
    BC - X - C - X
    While in regular TC, each team has a CP by their base, the difference here is that there is only one CP per round, and it's between the two bases (with the exception of the final rounds, where the single CP still is in the losing team's base). This is just the way arena mode fixes the huge turtling issues.

    I'm thinking this should solve every reason people hate TC, but I'm wondering what you people think about this. Is it a good idea to try to make a map with this mode?
     
  2. Invictus

    Invictus L1: Registered

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    I like the idea; it'd make it harder to turtle until sudden death, which is how most of my tc_hydro games have ended.
     
  3. Zanpa

    Zanpa L4: Comfortable Member

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    Epic battles over that point. The idea sounds nice, but wouldn't it be too quick ?
    Definitely need to playtest it, but so far so good :)
     
  4. HeaH

    HeaH L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    It's a mix of Arena and TC. Most people hate both modes, but yeah... If it's made right it would be great, and I'm sure I would love it too!

    Maybe you should add a cp in the middle too?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2009
  5. Zanpa

    Zanpa L4: Comfortable Member

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    HeaH : I don't think he wants to make it woithout respawn (at least, I didn't read it).

    I hope it's not part of your idea, MrMuffinMan ^^
     
  6. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

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    The style has been debated in theory, but we won't know until someone actually makes the entities work. When they do, they'd add in some depth to Arena and make the teams work together more. The only problem I see is that the spectators get swapped in to the teams that are waiting: It doesn't seem right, as one team should stick constant.

    On the other hand, you could do this with a single CP as well to achieve similar results, but it may encourage turtling.
     
  7. Zeewier

    Zeewier L9: Fashionable Member

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    I also thought of a mix between those (when making the linear arena :p), but KotH TC, 1 point for every 10 seconds holding the middle cap.

    EDIT: The entities work Potato ;)
     
  8. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

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    Ok, ents work, go for it! I want to see a map like this, as it would allow arena maps to be more than quick projects and more along the lines of intuitive gameplay or so.

    Plus, the numbers seem to work well; A total of 5 wins in a row to win total unless you win some, lose one, then get the rest.
     
  9. Zeewier

    Zeewier L9: Fashionable Member

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    Anyway what you are discribing potato is the mode i'm working on ;)

    MuffinMan is making a single cp TC, but I think it should be a KotH style TC because a scout rush will have a big chance to win if there is only a cp. (and 2cp's on the same place won't work (first to cap his cp wins, en because it's on the same place capping will block the other team, if thats your solution) because of the cp limit)

    @ muffinman:
    I've made those entities 2 (with the "Z33W13R" scoreboard ), but I think you can work out that yourself ;)
    And please don't post any details on the ents yet ;)
     
  10. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Ah, make me clear up stuff.

    I'm thinking having infinite respawn, like normal modes. But perhaps the CP could become active after 30/60 seconds to avoid Scout rushes ruining everything.
     
  11. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    This is just like TC with sudden death (or, you could just say TC since it stalemates anyways :p)

    I had this idea for a while, but it's cool to see someone try it out. :D
     
  12. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    there are two things i'd want to mention:
    1: engineers? - what will they do? in arenas the engineer has a use because he can build a dispenser and defend it with a sentry. this is useful in a map where there's no health and no respawn, but not so much when respawns are allowed.

    2: my biggest hate about TC is that i spend too little time on one area to actually get to know where i'm going, coupled with how the map switches mean i often will see one area but cannot traverse it in the way i expect because it's not the right round (which is due to how 1/2 of each map is reused in other rounds). in otherwords TC for me means turtling near the spawn because i have no idea where to go to be offensive, but my team's point is right outside the spawn. (so i know where it is)
     
  13. bomc

    bomc L2: Junior Member

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    It sounds very interesting, and it would definatly solve the stalemate problem, since there's actually nothing to defend (wich might be a little fustrating for engies).
    However i think that rounds will end very quickly, since it doesnt require much for a team to capture the point when theyve killed half of the other team. You could make some advantages for the "losing" team, like 5 seconds respawn time if the other team is capping the point, or something like that.
     
  14. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    I think this is actualy a very nice idea and would realy like to see it work. Arena is boring because its too much like css replaying the same round all the time. however, in a TC way it gets alot better due to alot of diffirent maps. It also kills the only TC map problem... stalemates

    However, as someone also mentioned. it might be hard to get used to the sections but there is still a good solution for that. Keep the basic bases and place a cp in the center of them so the area is as small as possible. the only problem is that optimizing might be hard when doing that. Maybe you can make it have 6 central CPs instead of 4. it takes more time to make the map but it makes optimizing easier if you make the sections small.

    Also, people allways say engys have to defend using sentrys... In arena they are a good health supply and they have to defend that area with their sentry and let the other ones attack. This is why many dont like it, people have to use tactics they dont know that they exist.
     
  15. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    TC cannot work with the Arena setup. TC is made for two static teams to try and push to one end of the map or the other over different rounds. Arena, however, has three dynamic teams.

    Nothing would suck more than pushing the other team across the whole map just to lose one round and sit out or for teams to get scrambled or some other inherent problem with the fact that territories are tied to teams that players are not.
     
  16. Invictus

    Invictus L1: Registered

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    Ideally, the CP is far enough from either spawn that a forward base becomes necessary. And even if this isn't the case, a well-positioned sentry can prevent anyone from capturing the point until it's removed.
     
  17. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    The point about Engineers is a good one, but my belief is that they could help the frontlines by setting up teleporters (as Invictus suggests, points should be fairly far from either spawn) and helping them hold a position with a sentry. Still, this would ask much from the Engineers, so they might now have very much fun at all anyway.

    I'm not quite sure what you're saying about Arena, Nineaxis, but let me make this clear: there is no similarities between this and arena, save for the fact that there's only one CP. There would respawns, healthkits and the possibility for stalemates (albeit lowered by the fact that you can't turtle). Arena is also less focused, since people just tend to scatter and run around until they meet someone, making the CP the secondary objective, while in this mode the CP would be the primary objective from the very beginning.
     
  18. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    I like the KotH suggestion. Scout rushes and spy caps have me leaning away from CP maps. i.e. on Dustbowl when a spy on either team caps the point, I feel we're missing out on half the fun of the map.
     
  19. Altaco

    Altaco L7: Fancy Member

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    I don't get why people are thinking he'll use arena mode. It's just TC but instead of 2 points at either end of a section, it's one point in the middle.

    I remember discussion about this a while back. It was determined that unless you found some sneaky entity way around it, you'd need a control point for each spawn room as well to control who spawns where. An intriguing option would be a TC map where there are a bunch of different bases all around a central area. For example, 4 different bases around the central area (plus 2 final areas), with a control point in the center. This would mean you could have 6 possible rounds in the middle. I think a 3-point system could work better than a 2-point one because it would make one team be able to push forward without the risk of being rushed and losing. Lemme make a diagram.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2009
  20. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    Sorry, I skimmed through the thread during a shortage of time, saw "TC" and "Arena" and hybridisation and wrote my post. It is completely irrelevant.