Help with a cp map?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by willbanks, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. willbanks

    willbanks L1: Registered

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    Hello, I'm currently making a cp map which is far from being done, but there is always problems in it that are fixable but I lack the skills and attention span to do so.

    I would really appreciate it if someone would be willing to show me the steps I need to take, the exact ones. (I have ADD, it's really hard for me to read/watch tutorials, and they never seem to work out anyway). Somebody who directly shows/tells me helps me extremely.

    What I need help with:
    -Water: the map takes place around water, and when I run the map it distorts. The reason is because I end 1 or 2 programs in my task manager that make my map load very slowly. If I keep these programs in and wait, it'll show up fine but I end them to save my time. I need help with making it so the water in the map will stop doing this without taking so much time to load the map.
    -Control points: since it is a cp map, it needs control points. I know the basics of setting up one control point, but most tutorials don't mention how to make more than 1 control point. I don't know how or where to start with making 5 control points. It gets unorganized and confusing very quickly for me, so I usually give up. How can I make it so I can have 5 control points, 2 for RED, 2 for BLU, and have a neutral control point?
    Another thing is when I test cap a point, the control point HUDs don't show up. How can I set these up? HUD : http://www.rambase.ro/site/system/files/images/tf2_contol_point_capture.jpg
    -People say my map also takes awhile to load because I don't have an entity/zone where if I walk inside, everything behind me will disapear. When I turn around, it'll come back, and everything behind me again will dissapear once more. I looked up tutorials but I can't follow along well.
    -Shading: I realize this should be one of the last things to do when working on a map, but once again I can't understand or focus on the tutorials I watch. How do I set up shading/shadows/lighting?

    I know all of these questions have tutorials but in reiteration, I have major ADD and cannot focus on them at all. I get lost and I feel hopeless. But I am positve that once I memorize how to do something, I will remember it.

    I know the basics of map design such as making buildings, making spawn points, creating props, etc, but when it gets more technical I crash and burn.

    If you have any questions please ask here. Please don't be mean in the replies.

    If you want to get in contact, here is my Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/will-banks/

    Thank you for reading this, I really appreciate it.
     
  2. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Before I start, I want to say one thing: we'll always be here to help, in forums and in the Steam chat. But many of us have varying degrees of ADD or other things that stop us from reading long articles or watching long videos as well. It's hard as hell sometimes, but there are many aspects of the Hammer editor and TF2 design theory that just can't be summarized, and sometimes you will need to just read long articles. Do it bit by bit if you have to, over days or something, but seriously some of the reading is just unavoidable. I spent almost a year using Hammer before I really understood at all what I was doing, and a lot of that was because I wasn't willing to make myself read all the documentation. Sometimes, there's just no alternative.

    Anyway

    What programs are you ending? It sounds like you're ending vvis and vrad? Those are the programs that calculate visibility and lighting, and both are vital to water appearing correctly. If your map is taking too long to compile, then you need to start looking at optimization techniques, or if it's specifically vrad, make sure you have no named lights and your lights are not excessive in number for any given area. Compiling is a resource intensive process, and your computer will slow down during it unless you've specifically built a computer to render/compile stuff.

    There's a variety of ways to optimize, and it typically starts with layout. There's some guides you can read here and here. This is an example of something that is incredibly difficult to summarize, so try reading those as best you can. Your issue about things appearing/disappearing sounds related to extreme optimization problems.

    Lighting is set up via the following entities: light, env_light, light_spot, and then some other stuff like env_lightglow and sprites, which are more advanced. This dev wiki article will be helpful as an overview, or check out the lights in official maps (some of these will have errors related to decompiling).

    For making multiple points, you just make more points. I'm not quite clear on what your question is: if you know how to make a basic point, you should know how to name a point, give it a default owner, set who can cap, etc. If you don't know that, check this out. To make a 5cp map, you just set it up as it should be: two points owned by BLU/RED, a neutral middle, and each cap should have "required point to cap" or something set correctly, I don't remember exactly. But if you expand on that question we can help more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  3. willbanks

    willbanks L1: Registered

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    thanks dude! ill try my best to read it. what i mean by the control points is that I can make one, but when I make another it just doesn't work.
     
  4. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    I forget exactly as it's been a long time since I've set them up for 5cp, but you might need to make all your points and create the overarching logic for them before they function right individually. There's not much different about making points for A/D compared to 5CP, really. Typically when your point isn't working, you just didn't set something up right, so go through and double check all your game logic again. Maybe someone more experienced with 5cp will pop in and enlighten us both. I can't check Hammer right now.

    If you're having a lot of problems, you can try installing this which comes with a gametype library (and also tons of other useful stuff). I would recommend you DO NOT simply copy and paste the entities into your map, though. If you don't know how they work, you can't fix them if something breaks. But you can use that as a tool to help learn what a barebones 5CP logic system looks like. Once you understand how things work, in the future you can of course copy the entities instead of remaking them by hand.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  5. willbanks

    willbanks L1: Registered

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    thanks again, is there any way I could maybe hire/get someone to optimize my map? I have a job so progress is exremly slow on it.
     
  6. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    You might be able to pay someone to do that, but

    1. Optimization starts with map layout, so it's kind of always up to you in that regard
    2. It therefore sometimes requires you to adjust things, which another person might not be comfortable with
    3. Most people don't fully understand optimization anyway, unfortunately, so you'd have a hard time getting someone to help
    4. Optimization isn't actually that hard, though, if you study Valve maps (turn off all the visgroups besides world geometry and hint/areaportal/occluders/etc)
    5. It's better you learn it so you understand how to map with it in mind, especially because it's beneficial to layouts
    6. The people that would be willing to optimize your map for money are probably busy with their own projects already
    So I mean, feel free to ask... but I think it would be in your best interest to learn.

    People make TF2 maps (and maps for other games) as a full time job, and it takes a long time for them to do that at 40+ hours a week. We're all battling other commitments between time spent in Hammer.
     
  7. ibex

    aa ibex

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    It's not exactly the best means of learning, but if you have time you should tune into people streaming for the 72hr contest at the end of this month. You may be able to pick up some concepts.
    Streaming one-on-one would be best, but I don't think anyone would have enough free time to volunteer that.
     
  8. willbanks

    willbanks L1: Registered

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    I understand about the layour and I always try to keep it on the grid, but sometimes I have to make it half a grid. It's always exactly half, but I don't know if that would count.

    I know it's better for me to learn but I have no idea where to start.
     
  9. willbanks

    willbanks L1: Registered

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    ok so lets say I finish the map, but it still takes forever to load but its finished as I wanted it to be. When I export it as a map file, would it take long to load on the game?
     
  10. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Nope, unless you have some weird bugs or there's a weird client issue. Compile and load times aren't related.
     
  11. willbanks

    willbanks L1: Registered

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    so it'll load regularly?
     
  12. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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  13. MoonFox

    MoonFox L10: Glamorous Member

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    can I pitch my two cents?
    if so: yea we can be a bit out there, but always remember, there will always be someone who has more experience and is willing to help. I have been map editing ever since I got on steam, and I went from clunky, leaking, and somewhat broken maps, to decently constructed (still may be broken) maps. it is always about patience and hard work, no one will make a masterpiece the first go around, and nobody knows how long a map will take to develop, browse through the wiki, check the dev blog, check examples here. I wish you luck on your CP map. https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Creating_a_Capture_Point (this would be your best guide)