Short Version: When I save or save-as a .vmf in Hammer, then compile and run, the spawn rooms stop working correctly. Namely Blue spawns in Blue's forward spawn at start of round. Tried recreating all spawns and further weirdness ensued. Read Detailed Version or just skip ahead to Troubleshooting Steps Taken So Far. Detailed Rambling Version:I have run into a very strange issue with pl_VipersDen. A week ago I was able to get a forward spawn for Blue working after a night of banging my head. I did a full compile and the map was working perfectly. Blue spawned in blue spawn 1 at start, Red spawned in red's only spawn at start, and Blue spawned in blue spawn 2 after the cart was pushed past the appropriate CP. I saved a backup copy, and then worked solely on detail for the next week; that is no game control entities (e.g. spawn points, logic_relays, triggers, round controllers) of any sort were added and/or changed. The only entities added at all were prop_static or func_detail. Because of this I did not test map, just continued in Hammer over the past week. Last night I got to a point where map was good enough for b2, and so I compiled with plans of putting on my clans server and doing some play testing before I release b2 publicly in a week. Here is where I hit the bloody wall. When map loads and I select blue, blue spawns incorrectly in the forward spawn. Red works fine. Troubleshooting Steps Taken So Far: 1. Checked all info_player_respawns, checked logic_relay that disable spawn 1 and enable spawn 2 after CP 2 is taken by blue, checked various other entities and all were set correctly. As I said above I had not changed anything but detail since a week ago when spawns were working fine. 2. Deleted blue spawn 2, kept blue spawn 1. Compiled and ran. Blue spawned in Red. 3. Deleted and recreated one-by-one blue spawn 1 and red spawn. Blue spawned correctly in blue spawn 1. (woot? not so fast) Red spawned in Blue spawn 1. Arrggghhhh! 4.Opened week old backup copy of vipersden, compiled (did not save first), spawns and all else worked correctly. Finally, I'll just copy and paste detail work into old copy. 5. Copy and paste current detail work into week old backup, compiled, ran and spawn issue returns. I think, okay I've somehow with detail caused map to go wonky I'll just scrap the past weeks work. 6.Open week old backup copy again, add a few bits of detail (just 1 prop_static), save, compile and run, and problem returns. Keep in mind (#4) this copy was working fine before I saved it. Okay maybe models or something causing error. 7.Open week old backup copy yet again, don't add or change anything, but I DO save (also tried save-as after that), compile and run, and spawn problem returns. At this point I realize its something to do with Saving map in Hammer. 8.To confirm saving in Hammer is issue, In Windows explorer I change name of week old backup copy to something random, open this renamed version in Hammer, DON'T SAVE, compile and run and it WORKS properly. I then open this renamed version, DO SAVE in Hammer, run and compile and spawn issue returns. *bangs head repeatedly on table 9.Edit 10:51 a.m.: Well its the map for sure and not Hammer. My modeler Jive Turkey had the exact same results (1-8) on his computer. Before you assume: Map has no leaks or any other compile log errors. No errors when map loads either. I don't mind too bad losing a weeks work. I would just start going forward with week old backup copy, but as I've shown above I can't save. Any thoughts? SOLUTION: Jive Turkey was able to fix the problem. He viewed vmf as text and saw that after map was saved in Hammer, the entity list was rearranged and the blue spawn 2 entities were put in a weird place. After some trial and error he discovered that the issue was that my info_player_teamspawns were grouped in the respective spawn rooms. He ungrouped them all and the problem went away. Note: I'm not sure if grouping info_player_teamspawns is a general no no or if this is just an anomaly in my map.