Help please. Too many T-Junctions.. Possible solutions?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Riever, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. Riever

    Riever L2: Junior Member

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    Hi,

    Oh well I mirrored the map and have hit the too many t-junctions problem in VBSP (rather than, as I would have expected VRAD).

    As I understand things the error is due to there being too many func_detail brushes touching world geometry. I have a lot of stairs and, as much of the map is old mines the pit props are also func_details (touching world brush walls).

    At present the stairs are just driven into walls (no holding rails) so I'm guessing that each step is causing junctions. If I add funct_detail rails will this reduce the t-junctions, or make it worse?

    I guess I could switch the walls to power 2 displacements? Or would this cause excessive vis leaves where the player cannot actually go/see?

    Or should I make func_lod rails?

    Any thoughts as to the easiest/best simplest way?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    No, you don't want to convert to displacements, you want to convert the brushes into props using a program called propper.
     
  3. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    This is a tiresome subject to cover as there is a lot to explain in terms of symptons and resolutions. What i think you're missing though is that func_details cause t-junctions on each other, not just world geometry. If you've used the search function on the site you'll find several topics on the matter each explaining 3-5 of the most effective methods of cutting down t-junct's

    turning your trims/rails into func_lod would be a start and is usually how Valve resolve this issue. Stairs are the main cause of t-junctions and voiding causing any on a set of stairs can reduce the count by hundreds per set of stairs.

    Turning stairs into models is a valid alternative. func_lod apparently wont let stickies stick, this isn't normally an issue as the surface area is such that nobody actually notices, but converting geometry into a model is deffinately a good idea, especially for stairs which may be repeated around your map.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  4. Riever

    Riever L2: Junior Member

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    Hi,

    Many thanks for the replies. Curiously I did search - which is how I found out about the possible solutions (but somehow missed the info on func_details touching func_details causing t-junctions).

    I also looked into Propper, but ran into a config issue with the SDK while trying to get it to work with the MP engine. Basically I've moved the propper.exe and .fdg, but when I switch the SDK to 2009 and click edit game configurations I am presented with a pop-up saying 'No game configurations to run with'. Presumably as TF2 is now solely on the MP engine ?

    Do I need to edit the gameconfig.txt?

    If so how?

    For now I'm probably going to switch the stairs to ramps - the map is very early stages and I am more concerned with getting the balance correct as it's my first big attempt.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  5. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    The Source engine is the Source engine and TF2 is a modification of that engine, it's not because it's single or multi-player.

    I don't know much about propper, but why have you moved the .fgd?
     
  6. AgeNt_

    AgeNt_ L5: Dapper Member

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    propper.fgd and propper.exe have to be in the source 2009 bin instead of the orangebox bin.

    from there you load up hammer, add the .fgd to the list and it can work.
    after you are ready, you want to run the map with the .exe it gives you.

    The recent update broke how textures are implemented in the model, to fix this you must simply extract the textures you are using into the correct folder in the tf/materials directory.

    propper is an awesome tool that i just recently discovered. why didn't i know about it before?!?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. Riever

    Riever L2: Junior Member

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    Ahhh ha! (or something)

    Many thanks for the replies.

    Extracting and copying the textures fixed half the problem, but I also had to copy game.txt from the orange box bin to the 2009 one (as the 2009 one had one line in it).

    So yes Propper is an amazing tool. One question though, where does it put and what does it call it's log? I added -logging to the command line in hammer but can't find it.

    There is a warning displayed very quickly on the dos box, but I've no idea what it is so need to check the log file.
     
  8. AgeNt_

    AgeNt_ L5: Dapper Member

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    I would check the folder you had the .smd and .qc to be directed to. Im not sure since I didn't have the problem.
     
  9. Riever

    Riever L2: Junior Member

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    Gahhh!

    I don't get this at all. Having moved a number of func_details to models, switched stairs to ramps, made stairs models etc I had 65538 indices. Sooo close. (Max is 65536).

    So I select a chunk of funct_details (basically made into a bank safe) and move them to the world. Result?

    65571 indices.

    :blink:

    Any ideas why?
     
  10. BollyFlex

    BollyFlex L1: Registered

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    Hi,

    I've been working on my first map for the last few weeks. I'm new to the TF2 mapping scene but I've made a few maps for HL2 before using hammer.

    The last couple of days have seen me encounter a string of problems with my map, all of which stemmed from the "Too many t-junctions to fix up!" which first appeared due to the large number of func_detail catwalks and railings I'd put in. I tried many solutions (in turn causing a cascade of issues), including changing all trims and rails to func_lod (which caused a black-screen followed by a full-scale crash of hl2.exe when a class was picked at level start).

    These forums have been an absolutely invaluable help with solving this and other issues I've had, my thanks goes out to all of you guys for contributing to this goldmine of information.

    I thought the least I could do was to share my solution to this problem, which was to group every rail and catwalk into one single func_detail. This seems to have fixed all issues and my map now compiles and runs error-free :D

    Thanks!