HDR Flickering?!

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by IrishTaxIDriver, Mar 11, 2011.

  1. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    CULPRIT FOUND! 2fort_water_expensive is a no-no!

    I'm working on a King of the Hill map named Mill. I've recently run into an issue with the HDR that I can't pin down, but I can pinpoint the version on which it started. I've brought this to 6 other mappers and they've never seen anything like it. I'm starting to lose it over this!

    THE EVIDENCE

    [​IMG]
    http://i.imgur.com/e0vB6.jpg
    [​IMG]
    http://i.imgur.com/3bvxM.jpg

    [​IMG]
    http://i.imgur.com/HZpIG.jpg
    [​IMG]
    http://i.imgur.com/IxXya.jpg

    Just flip between those really quickly, thats exactly whats happening.

    Alternatively if you've downloaded the b1 version and would like to see them, here are some getpos:

    Here are some getpos that show specifically where I'm getting them.

    The blue spawn spot and the ledge. Strafing between those two spots causes it.

    Aiming at the white brick building.
    Moving foreward in the mill attic.

    Double alternatively, watch this video FLOOR_MASTER graciously made for me:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53150/mill-flicker.mp4

    WHAT I KNOW

    1. Does not happen when HDR isn't on in the compile, and when HDR is disabled in game.
      • Happens on both Fast and Normal compiles. Haven't tried final compiling.
    2. Shows up for everyone in a multiplayer game.
    3. Its definately switching between the LDR and HDR settings for ambience and brightness in the light_environment. I've changed the values and the change is consistent with it.
    4. The spots its happening in is consistent, but I can't figure out why its happening there.
    5. The tonemap and light_environment settings are from arena_lumberyard.
    6. I've tested with the tonemap and light_environment settings of Upward, still causing it.
    7. Removing all the cubemaps from the afflicted maps does not fix the issue.
    8. Flickering happens on both ATI and Nvidia cards. Might be in different spots though.
    9. No errors in the compile, I've verified this with the Interlopers checker. As an extension:
      • I've recompiled both versions of the maps when it showed up. It consistently happens on the one where it showed up and doesn't happen on the one it didn't.
      • I've cleared all both versions (t6 and t7) problem's list.
      • Map Properties are the same for both maps.
    10. The version that it does not happen on and the version it does happen on:
      • same light_environment settings.
      • same env_tonemap_global settings.
      • same env_cubemap locations and build processes.
      • rest of the point entities (water_lod, shadow_control, env_fog_controller, etc) have the same settings.
      • The difference in the two maps is some instances and some new detailing that is all func_detailed.

    Heres the map I took the screenshots on:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53150/koth_mill_b1.rar

    The version where it DOESN'T HAPPEN: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53150/koth_mill_t6.rar

    The version where it STARTED: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53150/koth_mill_t7.rar

    Please ignore the performance issues, I have them fixed in a new compile and will make a thread about it when I get that version done.

    I can circumvent the issue for now by not compiling HDR or setting the LDR and HDR to the same values, but I'm going to have to address it eventually.

    I am doing this irl:

    [​IMG]

    Someone point out the elephant in the room I'm missing please!
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  2. Jeremy

    Jeremy L11: Posh Member

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    Could you use anything other than imgur? It's taking decades to load one picture.

    Photobucket works well.

    Will edit once the images finally load.

    EDIT:
    Well, uh. That's new. Something to do with cubemaps, maybe? I'll run the map and see for myself.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  3. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    I just clicked them and it loaded in a second, I don't understand whats slow about them.

    I'll photobucket them too.

    EDIT: Imagesocketed them.

    Its not cubemaps. They didn't change between the versions where it started. I'll edit in some more information in the facts list that I forgot.

    EDIT: Well I should say I can't see how it'd be the cubemaps. I built them in the same way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  4. Jeremy

    Jeremy L11: Posh Member

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    Eh, I was shooting in the dark there ;_;

    Well, I can't really think of anything that could cause this flicker. Sorry.
    Hope someone will be better than me at solving this problem.


    (Nice map, though)
     
  5. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    Everyone goes to the cubemap issue first, and for all I know it could actually be the case, but I don't know what the hell at all.

    We've been playing this on 2f2f a lot and everyone there loves it. I want to wait for the next version where I slather everything in occluders and other performance improvements (AND FIX THIS DUMB ISSUE) to post it here.

    EDIT: This is actually the THIRD obscure ridiculous thing I've encountered making this. The first one was wierd geometry bleeding into the skybox (which turned out to be a lack of a cubemap in the skybox, it was using one from the play area), and water switching from cheap to expensive depending on the angle you were viewing it from (source doesn't like multiple water levels in the same PVS).
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  6. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    What... what is happening? I tabbed like a pro and still don't get the problem. :<
     
  7. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    Its switching between LDR and HDR ambience and brightness values seemingly randomly. You can see the general lighting differences by looking at the thumbnails, now imagine your game switching between those depending on the angle and direction you're looking.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Everyone says disabling cubemaps. So have you tried? Just wondering. I don't have any ideas.
     
  9. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    You mean just visgrouping them off before compiling? No I haven't tried that. The version where this didn't happen has them in the same spot (just less of them, but same amount as the version where it showed up). I ruled them out because it seemed to be unrelated.

    I'll try it in an hour or so when I get home.
     
  10. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Yeah, exactly. If that is the issue I wouldn't know how to fix it, but it's something to try.
     
  11. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    What are the settings in your tonemap controller? I'd think that would be the most likely culprit as that controls the hdr fade from bright to dark and back.

    it shouldn't flicker but there might be a weird setting (or reversed settings)

    --------
    And I wouldn't recommend 'slathering the map with occluders'. they can hurt performance if used wrong/too many of them.
     
  12. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    Same settings as arena_lumberyard, which is why I don't think the tonemap is the issue either, but it could be! I've also tried the light_environment and tonemap settings from upward and they were causing the issue too.

    I know too many occluders isn't good, I use slathering as a humourous term. I've been testing locations with them and performance is up by at least 20 frames with some liberal use. I'm sure there are a few redundant ones though which I will weed out today.

    I'll edit these facts into the list.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  13. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    You mention the HDR vs LDR ambience/brightness settings. Do you mean that you've changed the HDR setting on the lights to something other than -1 -1 -1 1?
     
  14. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    Nah, I mean on the light_environment, the LDR and HDR brightness and ambience settings.

    EDIT: Clarified that in the OP.

    EDIT #2: Also put up the versions where it started and where it doesn't happen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  15. Exist

    Exist L6: Sharp Member

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    First thing first, make sure the issue is HDR related

    Use the console commands
    sv_cheats 1
    mat_hdr_enabled 0

    If the issue still occurs, then the issue isn't HDR related.
     
  16. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    Yeah, already did that, I know it doesn't occur with HDR off. I'll clarify that bullet point.

    EDIT: Trying out yyler's suggestion now.

    EDIT #2: Nope, still flickering :(
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  17. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    drawing straws now...

    Are there any portals/occluders that align to those positions. (say an occluder off to the side of that area, but in the plane of that area?)
    Or hints?

    (just trying to think of things that would cause leaf splits that might correspond).

    Load up the portal file and see if crossing a leaf is what causes it.
     
  18. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    Occluders weren't in the version it started, and I actually caught and fixed an areaportal issue because I was hunting for this.

    I think the leaf split may be on the right track. Looking at the portal file the two places I prominently see the change are on the edges/corners of leaves, its not exactly where but its in the ballpark for both versions. The first set of pictures with the white brick building, that corner is the edge of a leaf, the reticle is aiming at a different leaf when the HDR shows up.

    EDIT: The only issue I can think of related to that is why isn't it showing up in the t6 version. It has nearly identical division.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  19. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I'll try and look tonight when I get home and see if I notice anything
     
  20. IrishTaxIDriver

    IrishTaxIDriver L6: Sharp Member

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    Has anyone downloaded the map and seen if it happens to them? Everyone I've talked to has an ATI card, anyone got an nvidia card and see the flickering?