Guidelines for giving feedback at the gamedays.

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by REEJ, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. REEJ

    REEJ L7: Fancy Member

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    When giving feedback:
    • type in complete sentences
    • elaborate on reasons when you give your opinion
    • state what exactly is the target of your feedback
    • use proper grammar
    • no swearing/insults

    Since map makers do care about the feedback I thought we could use some improvements at our gamedays.
    While posts in the forums are well written and moderated, why not maintain the standard at gamedays?
     
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  2. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    I dont know how useful this will be, since it seems that most unhelpful feedback is left by people who dont frequent the forums. But eh, someone needed to post it.
     
  3. Geit

    aa Geit 💜 I probably broke it 💜

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    Also, people should bear in mind that you can be banned entirely from using feedback if we feel that you aren't contributing anything useful through it.
     
  4. Jeremy

    Jeremy L11: Posh Member

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    One of the pieces of feedback I recieved from a gameday was simply "dont let me up here".

    This'll be good to point some in the right direction.
     
  5. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    If it was a !fb not a !gf then it should have come with a pair of coordinates, one of which will be where the player stood and the other being the surface his crosshairs were on. So that comment should be all that is needed.
     
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  6. Geit

    aa Geit 💜 I probably broke it 💜

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    Image for emphasis:
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. REEJ

    REEJ L7: Fancy Member

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    example - informative:
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I have to delete too many stupid !fb comments during gameday that i often just give up and gag the player. Sometimes there is an honest comment hidden behind internet/troll lingo so it's hard to enforce because you're punishing an otherwise helpful player along with the map author in the long run, if he's able to translate the comment; but i think people need to learn another lesson in manners. There's no need for this kind of language on our servers. Sometimes things can degrade into a pre-school playground with some peoples rather brovado attitudes.

    I think the problem is though that you can't give concise feedback when you're in the middle of a game. You're all too likely to get killed, and the only way to not get interrupted whilst typing is to jump into spectator, which is still disruptive to gameplay.

    feedback is good for small pieces of feedback like telling someone to clip something or remove a piece of geometry because it's in the way. Or if a door trigger doesn't work etc. More cumbersome feedback logically needs to be given in the thread, such as opinions on gameplay and layout.

    the feedback plugin is not an ends to a means and nor is the forum. Both have to suppliment the other to give the most efficient service to map authors.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  9. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    Sometimes I use !gf at the beginning and end of a test I attend as markers from where to where I actually have a demo. And then I write "Natascha still sucks", for example. (It's true.)
     
  10. Jeremy

    Jeremy L11: Posh Member

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    It seemed rather vague to me. There was nothing that said what exactly was stopping them, for example.
     
  11. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Well, seems like they meant it needed to be player clipped (I assume a rooftop that seemed overpowered or out of gameplay area). He probably assumed you'd get that, and since coords are there you just gotta dig a little.

    There is the vmf DL on the feedback page, copy those points into your map and it makes it easy to find them. (Just don't save your map with them in there.
     
  12. Jeremy

    Jeremy L11: Posh Member

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    It could also mean "I can't get up here". I've been near enough people who say things like "it don't work", as much as I have seen people online say the same thing.

    Anyway, I checked what was there and I didn't see any problems. Again, he could state what was stopping him from getting to a certain point.
     
  13. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    the !fb plugin is really best for beta, i think. Clipping and such.

    PS: leaving feedback annotations at the right placeis good. In the clipping examples above, i personally try to leave the annotation at the site of the clipping issue, rather than expecting people to take the co-ords from the site. They can download the .vmf.
     
  14. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    I've understood feedback as simple as ":mad:" or "this sucks" and known exactly what the person means and what needs changing. Occasionally I have to ask for elaboration, but I'm much more interested (at the alpha stage, at least) in knowing what makes a player say something short like "this sucks" versus "try to make this more accessible to jump classes or trick jumps" or something. Personally, I like the feedback of players, not mappers, so something visceral like "I hate this" is really what I look forward to.

    So grazr, please don't delete them, at least from cp_desertion. Not that you have or anything. Just in the future. I understand how other people will not react the same to me, but I do want to say that I feel basically the opposite.

    Just a counterpoint.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2011
  15. Surtr

    Surtr L1: Registered

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    Thank you for this post. I think that the trolls can maybe learn how to give feedback and everyone else can refine their abilities and leave really good comments after reading this.

    I know that one of the most aggravating things about my first game day with my map being played was comments like "this is gay" and "lol your a noob" or stuff like that. :cursing:
     
  16. REEJ

    REEJ L7: Fancy Member

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    Exactly, the gamedays are supposed to be testing maps in-development and yet there is always a bunch of people expecting finished maps.

    Player's style feedback is alright, but not when it ends up as simple trolling.
     
  17. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    I will say that one thing that does annoy me is when people use the feedback system to do something like "MORE SPIES" when their team has 5 spies.
     
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  18. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Moose

    Moose L6: Sharp Member

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    Awesome now people think I'm a total asshole all the time with my feedback.

    I did this on my own map, JUST FYI GUYS DON'T TAKE THIS OUT OF CONTEXT.

    EDIT: while I'm at it...
    [​IMG]
    I even left useful feedback before insulting myself.

    EDIT2: I am getting really worked up over this and sarcastically thanked reej's post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  20. Dark

    Dark L4: Comfortable Member

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    When your map gets trolled, or if someone is talking over the questions you want to ask to direct feed back just tell them to shut up, or ask an admin or any friend with a mic to do so. I know i feel uncomfortable when someone is dominating the test with useless chatter or troll feed back, and I imagine others around here do too. So stand up for your map! But know that if no one is enjoying your it players will start to burn out and feed back will decrees in quality. Try to understand where they are coming from and choose to call them out or to just cut your map time short. If you need clarification on why people aren't liking your map, just ask for it. As community of mapper most everyone understands that you want to better a map when its in a gameday or an impromptu, and almost everyone will help you do just that. Whether that means in game or over steam chat, all you have to do is ask. Preferably while being polite.

    Always remember that if you do get bad feedback, we have the luxury of having a server record game play 24/7. Ask a server admin for your demo (impromptu) or grab it off the forums (gameday) its always helpful, even when the feedback is not.