Ground, second floor and roofs

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Mr. P. Kiwi, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. Mr. P. Kiwi

    Mr. P. Kiwi L5: Dapper Member

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    Well I don't know what about you, but I always get confused on how to these properly... I tried looking on decompiled Valve maps, but every map does it differently. Oh, this is not a tutorial! It's a "how to get it right" thread, I'm asking you to help me here... :)
    So, lets start:

    The Ground

    1. It's probably like this:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9132584/New Folder/Picture1.jpg
    2. But, just to be sure, it's usually not made like this:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9132584/New Folder/Picture2.jpg
    In case that sometimes you use both ways, please tell me when and why.

    Second Floor

    Two ways, once again:
    1. Exactly like the ground:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9132584/New Folder/Picture3.jpg
    When you use this method, how do you make the floor not visible on the wall?
    2. Or making it look nice:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9132584/New Folder/Picture4.jpg
    3. And when you use, if you use, way #2 how do you face this problem:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9132584/New Folder/Picture5.jpg

    The Roof

    1. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9132584/New Folder/Picture6.jpg
    2. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9132584/New Folder/Picture7.jpg
    3. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9132584/New Folder/Picture8.jpg
    4. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9132584/New Folder/Picture9.jpg

    If you know about one subject, or you don't want to write a whole tutorial just write: the "chapter"'s name and the number of the problem you want to answer. (If there's a tutorial about this, that I missed, feel free to put a link for it here)
    Thanks!
     
  2. StickZer0

    aa StickZer0 💙💙💃💙💙

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    Honestly, it is entirely your own preference that affects how you build the walls and floors of your house.

    I've definitely had the trouble in Picture #5 before, you just need to stick a little piece in there.

    Ultimately though, i'd say go with what makes VVIS happy - depending on what angle the walls are facing (essentially whether they're looking North/South or West/East) you'll get visleafs projecting out of the wall that are as thick as the wall itself, and that's always annoyed me. Maybe i'll do an experiment sometime to determine what causes that happening.


    But yeah, personal preference.
     
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  3. red_flame586

    red_flame586 L7: Fancy Member

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    generally it depends on the situation and what you want to acheive

    e.g. if you want an overhang roof, overhang it
    if you want a door in the second floor, put the wall on top of the floor etc.

    anyway, it really depends on what will be best for you, the compile and the player playing it. Just make sure it doesn't leak.
     
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  4. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    I go with picture 1 because then it's easier to modify the height of the building. I go with picture 4 because it also makes it easier to modify height, but also shape and it helps in detail stages. I do none of the roofs, instead I make a triangular brush over the building. That way VVIS is happy, it makes it easy to line up the overhanging roof when I add it, and it looks like a building. Otherwise, in earlier stages, I'll probably end up doing picture 7 but levelled off with the walls.
     
  5. Mick-a-nator

    aa Mick-a-nator

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    It's actually a pretty tricky question if you try and go into depth. Rooves (yes, that is correct spelling. Both are valid, but I prefer "rooves" as that is how the word is said... [/grammarlecture]) are almost entirely dependent on the theme or rather, how you want the building to be silhouetted. For the floors, you should go with any method you are most comfortable with, but be prepared to change how you do it from time to time. This is to because maybe the method you are using is causing brushes to intersect from time to time. That is why I prefer to use the method similar to picture 2, but with the walls only just meeting the floor (edge-to-edge, not face-to-partial-face).
     
  6. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Ground floor I do it like the first image. Otherwise aligning textures can be a little more difficult.

    Second floors I do it like the first image. I'll just add pieces where I need them if there's a weird gap.

    Roofs I do like another floor, but then I add the overhanging roof or whatever kind as needed.
     
  7. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    Just make everything overlap ! Problem solved ! :O

    Personnally I've found that what works best for me is (in descending order of priority)
    1. The floor. It's going to be there no matter what. can also clip through a displacement ground in some themes.
    2. Ceiling/Roof.
    3. The walls.
    4. Intermediate levels ground/ceiling. The reason why I don't put this before walls is because staircases become problematic, and you have small brushes all over the place.

    As for angled roofs, I usually have them land exactly on top of the walls, and then make the parts that extend beyond the edges of the wall with separate func_whatever.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  8. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    The ground-buildings: Build it like you would a regular building, foundation, walls, floors. In that order, and supporting the next addition to the structure. The building sits on the foundation and the walls support the floors.

    Drop your second floor so the surface aligns with the texture top, 256 units tall i believe. Most indoors textures wont have a ceiling detail whilst outside textures tiles will. This allows you to allign your secondary (etc) floors neatly.

    The roof should be 9 or a combination of 8 and 9. 8 can help you seal the inside of the building whilst placing 9 ontop for added capacity to detail. 9 alone can cause optimisation/performance issues, but probably wont kill your map, it's circumstantial though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  9. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    With the ground i prefer case 2. Simply as that has the best support for displacements. You just drag the wall down a 128 units further and the place the floor that seals. Then 128 units higher you have that exact same floor and thats the displacement one. Best way to seal the maps and have the displacements prepared.

    For the 2nd floor I pick #2 for the same reason as the floor. However, in many cases i prevent 2nd floors to match the first floor so often its just a weird combination which ends up mixing 1 and 2. For the doorway in a wall i just place an extra brush and many times just drag the bridge that comes out of it into that doorway.

    I prefer to have sections that dont have their brushes being used in other sections as well. So instead of a 256-256 block i would use the 4 walls seperately. Only in pure dev state i use the quick way as it speeds up alot.

    For the roof #4 is the best to me.
    If that is the case just place a hint brush in the doorway. That is all. I never had that issue myself.