Grime Trench

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Greaser Dan :D, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. Greaser Dan :D

    Greaser Dan :D L1: Registered

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    A symmetrical one point CP map.

    I'm trying to make the map have an emphasis on trench warfare, with a lot of moving between cover and securing certain areas to make progress. I started working on it this morning.

    I'm also planning on making an arena variant, along with a deathmatch variant for those who like those gamemodes.

    Criticism is welcome.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  2. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    This map looks incredibly small, and you're using too much props. Make more use of brushes for details then add props/overlays where you want peoples attention.
    The scale is okay I guess, but it needs to be bigger, atm it can support about 4 players without turning into a clusterfuck.

    I would do away with the dirt box around the map as soon as possible, it looks horrible.
    Try dirt ground and toolsskybox for the walls/ceiling. dont forget a light_environment.

    Good luck
     
  3. Greaser Dan :D

    Greaser Dan :D L1: Registered

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    Yeah I've already added displacement cliffs around the level instead of boxes.

    Now as for using too many props instead of brushes - I don't see how using brushes can provide the level of detail that the various crates and other things like that provide. All of the seemingly useless props lying around aren't just there for eye candy, but instead they provide cover for players to use. The small detail work will come later on. If you could explain what you meant a bit more it would help me out a lot.

    As for the size of the map, well, I think you may be right. I originally intended it to be used for smaller servers, maybe sixteen players max, but now I'm thinking I'm going to need a bit more space for even that. I think I may need to add another level for players to use, maybe an underground trench here or there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2009
  4. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    While props are good for detail and looks alot better than anything you can make with brushes, it's very noisy and looks kinda stupid to have that amount of it laying around a box building.

    Brushes are the cornerstone of mapping, it's the base on which you then paint on textures and smaller brushes, overlays and props to decorate the map. You can use the detailing to draw peoples attention to important areas in your map. Such as doorways, windows, capture points. People will get confused if the entire map is littered with props, everything will be equally interesting to the eye and when there is a battle going on you don't want the awesome model of a bucket to take focus from the demomans stickies.

    It's fine to use props as means of cover, it's a perfect use for them. But it just looks silly when you have everything in there. If you look at the valve maps you will realise there is a theme in each map, they dont use ALL their props in ALL maps.
    TF2 isnt a sneaky game either, so the props doesnt provide much real cover for players, they are more like obstacles soldiers have to aim around or scouts to jump over. Props should not be in the middle of a battle, they are very annoying to get stuck on when trying to backpedal away from a pyro or such.

    My suggestion is to look at valve maps, they use a lot of props but even more brushes.

    The brushwork is what makes the map.
     
  5. Jamini

    Jamini L4: Comfortable Member

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    To add to what Ravidge said, I'd also like to point out that brushes are really quite versitle in what you can make with them once you get into vertex editing and using func_detail. While they cannot have the exact level of detail you see on a proper prop model, for things like heavily detailed pillars, barrels, boxes, and complicated floor plans it's quite easy to make a group of brushes that can fit your needs.

    Brushes default to 8 points (a cube) however a basic brush can safely have as few as six points (triangles) or as many as ten (a cube with a brazier-cut corner) before getting too confusing for the compiler or you. Additionally, they are able to be as small as 1HU (approx one in-game inch) wide. If you consider that you can texture each face of a brush differently or add in any number of overlays... they become far more important than props.

    Things I have used brushes for recently:

    1. Door Sliding Door Fames.
    2. An Arched tunnel
    3. Highly detailed supports for spotlights.
    4. Crossed Ibeams in the sides of spawnrooms
    5. A number of sloping rooftops.
    6. Wooden and metal supports for a tall building.
    7. Highly detailed wooden platforms.
    8. Decorative wooden pillars.
    9. A hommade companion cube.
    10. A ski slope, complete with flag markers.
    11. A detailed two-part glass/chrome door.
    12. A large,warm fireplace and accompanying chimney.
     
  6. Greaser Dan :D

    Greaser Dan :D L1: Registered

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    Alright so I found that my current map design lends itself better to being a CTF map rather then a small control point map, so that's what I'm doing. All of the alternate pathways around the map proved useless if everyone is going to be converging in one single area.

    So now I need to design bases, and re-do the tunnels that went alongside the map on either side because I fucked them all up.

    Hopefully changing it to a CTF map will actually give the tunnels some actual use and it will probably promote the trench warfare I'm trying to strive for even more, since an organized team could probably lock down certain areas.