Grid Question

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by BagOfChips, Feb 7, 2009.

  1. BagOfChips

    BagOfChips L5: Dapper Member

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    I'm very new to hammer (starting using it on wednesday) and I have a big question about the grid. How come sometimes when I go to place a new brush over another brush, they some times are unable to line up? For example, the new brush will be on the grid line, but the one I want to line it up with is between the two grid lines. (Even on the smallest grid size)

    Thanks for help. :)
     
  2. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

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    If you have a model selected, and you start drawing a new brush in the top view, the brush will be the same height as the prop you had selected, which can sometimes be off the smallest grid. Just drag the handles on the brush to snap it to the grid. :)
     
  3. BagOfChips

    BagOfChips L5: Dapper Member

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    TY very much :)
     
  4. Cereal_Killer

    Cereal_Killer L1: Registered

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    You can always deselect "snap to grid"

    map => snap to grid
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. BagOfChips

    BagOfChips L5: Dapper Member

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    works even better
     
  6. Altaco

    Altaco L7: Fancy Member

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    you NEVER want to turn snap to grid off. Always opt to simply move the off-grid brush onto the grid - I think it's shift+W to turn snapping on and off.
     
  7. BagOfChips

    BagOfChips L5: Dapper Member

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    What's wrong with snap grid off?

    I don't think I have anything off the grid now, anyhow.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2009
  8. Altaco

    Altaco L7: Fancy Member

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    It's bad for the engine in general and it's simply necessary to stay on the grid for clean brushwork.
     
  9. moosenukes

    moosenukes L1: Registered

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    going off grid is fine for entities though
     
  10. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Just to elaborate on that.

    Overlapping brushes will cause compile crashes/error's. Gaps will cause leaks (if your map is not fully enclosed) and cause your map to not compile. If you somehow manage to create a map and have it not leak whilst not alligned to the grid you will get all sorts of rendering issues as the player will render around objects due to how sight is calculated during the compilation. LEading to horrible performance and longer compile times.
     
  11. BagOfChips

    BagOfChips L5: Dapper Member

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    ok well one of my whole areas was off the grid so I deleted it and remaking it is not fun ;( damn grids.
     
  12. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I agree, don't turn off grid. Most objects are close enough to a grid that if you use size 1 you can place them right where you want anyway.

    If the edge of your brush isn't on the grid just drag to resize it and it'll snap.

    ---reasons it could be off grid:

    you used the vert tool, made an angle, then resized.

    You selected multiple brushes/entities and moved them together on a small grid size. Since they can snap to grid by center one of the brushes might end up off the grid.
     
  13. BagOfChips

    BagOfChips L5: Dapper Member

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    I compiled my map after fixing the grids and now when I go to create the game I launch it and when it loads it's a very early version of my map. (The names are vastly different, too)

    What can cause this? Compile log:
    (Name of the map compiled is cp_fortress fort fix. When I choose it, the game loads up cp_Foretress)

    Code:
    ** Executing...
    ** Command: "c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdkbinorangeboxbinvbsp.exe"
    ** Parameters: -game "c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipsteam fortress 2tf" "C:Program FilesSteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix"
    
    Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Mar 11 2008)
    2 threads
    materialPath: c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipsteam fortress 2tfmaterials
    Loading C:Program FilesSteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix.vmf
    fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
    ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...Brush 343845: WARNING, microbrush
    5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
    ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...Brush 343845: WARNING, microbrush
    5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
    Processing areas...done (0)
    Building Faces...done (0)
    Chop Details...done (0)
    Find Visible Detail Sides...done (0)
    Merging details...done (0)
    FixTjuncs...
    PruneNodes...
    WriteBSP...
    done (0)
    writing C:Program FilesSteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix.prt...Building visibility clusters...
    done (0)
    Creating default LDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
       skybox/sky_day01_01*.vmt
     ! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
    Creating default HDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
       skybox/sky_day01_01*.vmt
     ! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
    Finding displacement neighbors...
    Finding lightmap sample positions...
    Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
    Building Physics collision data...
    done (0) (175100 bytes)
    Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
    Compacting texture/material tables...
    Reduced 862 texinfos to 663
    Reduced 16 texdatas to 15 (343 bytes to 325)
    Writing C:Program FilesSteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix.bsp
    3 seconds elapsed
    
    ** Executing...
    ** Command: "c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdkbinorangeboxbinvvis.exe"
    ** Parameters: -game "c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipsteam fortress 2tf" "C:Program FilesSteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix"
    
    Valve Software - vvis.exe (Mar 11 2008)
    2 threads
    reading c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix.bsp
    reading c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix.prt
    1216 portalclusters
    3776 numportals
    BasePortalVis:       0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
    PortalFlow:          0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1131)
    Optimized: 7477 visible clusters (0.00%)
    Total clusters visible: 542111
    Average clusters visible: 445
    Building PAS...
    Average clusters audible: 1154
    visdatasize:347416  compressed from 369664
    writing c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix.bsp
    18 minutes, 52 seconds elapsed
    
    ** Executing...
    ** Command: "c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdkbinorangeboxbinvrad.exe"
    ** Parameters:  -game "c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipsteam fortress 2tf" "C:Program FilesSteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix"
    
    Valve Software - vrad.exe SSE (Mar 11 2008)
    
          Valve Radiosity Simulator     
    2 threads
    [Reading texlights from 'lights.rad']
    [34 texlights parsed from 'lights.rad']
    
    Loading c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix.bsp
    Setting up ray-trace acceleration structure... Done (0.48 seconds)
    4146 faces
    17 degenerate faces
    711319 square feet [102430016.00 square inches]
    0 Displacements
    0 Square Feet [0.00 Square Inches]
    4129 patches before subdivision
    46031 patches after subdivision
    0 direct lights
    BuildFacelights:     0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
    BuildVisLeafs:       0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (19)
    transfers 5405369, max 1059
    transfer lists:  41.2 megs
    GatherLight:         0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
    	Bounce #1 added RGB(0, 0, 0)
    Build Patch/Sample Hash Table(s).....Done<0.0292 sec>
    FinalLightFace:      0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (7)
    FinalLightFace Done
    0 of 0 (0% of) surface lights went in leaf ambient cubes.
    ThreadComputeLeafAmbient: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (10)
    Writing leaf ambient...done
    Ready to Finish
    
    Object names       Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness 
    ------------       ---------------  ---------------  -------- 
    models                   7/1024          336/49152    ( 0.7%) 
    brushes               1825/8192        21900/98304    (22.3%) 
    brushsides           12933/65536      103464/524288   (19.7%) 
    planes                1724/65536       34480/1310720  ( 2.6%) 
    vertexes              6430/65536       77160/786432   ( 9.8%) 
    nodes                 2483/65536       79456/2097152  ( 3.8%) 
    texinfos               663/12288       47736/884736   ( 5.4%) 
    texdata                 15/2048          480/65536    ( 0.7%) 
    dispinfos                0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
    disp_verts               0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
    disp_tris                0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
    disp_lmsamples           0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
    faces                 4146/65536      232176/3670016  ( 6.3%) 
    hdr faces                0/65536           0/3670016  ( 0.0%) 
    origfaces             1659/65536       92904/3670016  ( 2.5%) 
    leaves                2491/65536       79712/2097152  ( 3.8%) 
    leaffaces             4978/65536        9956/131072   ( 7.6%) 
    leafbrushes           1859/65536        3718/131072   ( 2.8%) 
    areas                    2/256            16/2048     ( 0.8%) 
    surfedges            26784/512000     107136/2048000  ( 5.2%) 
    edges                14639/256000      58556/1024000  ( 5.7%) 
    LDR worldlights          0/8192            0/720896   ( 0.0%) 
    HDR worldlights          0/8192            0/720896   ( 0.0%) 
    leafwaterdata            0/32768           0/393216   ( 0.0%) 
    waterstrips            517/32768        5170/327680   ( 1.6%) 
    waterverts               0/65536           0/786432   ( 0.0%) 
    waterindices          7614/65536       15228/131072   (11.6%) 
    cubemapsamples           1/1024           16/16384    ( 0.1%) 
    overlays                 1/512           352/180224   ( 0.2%) 
    LDR lightdata         [variable]     1504732/0        ( 0.0%) 
    HDR lightdata         [variable]           0/0        ( 0.0%) 
    visdata               [variable]      347416/16777216 ( 2.1%) 
    entdata               [variable]        6521/393216   ( 1.7%) 
    LDR ambient table     2491/65536        9964/262144   ( 3.8%) 
    HDR ambient table     2491/65536        9964/262144   ( 3.8%) 
    LDR leaf ambient      1252/65536       35056/1835008  ( 1.9%) 
    HDR leaf ambient      2491/65536       69748/1835008  ( 3.8%) 
    occluders                0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
    occluder polygons        0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
    occluder vert ind        0/0               0/0        ( 0.0%) 
    detail props          [variable]           1/12       ( 8.3%) 
    static props          [variable]           1/1036     ( 0.1%) 
    pakfile               [variable]      211376/0        ( 0.0%) 
    physics               [variable]      175100/4194304  ( 4.2%) 
    physics terrain       [variable]           2/1048576  ( 0.0%) 
    
    Level flags = 0
    
    Total triangle count: 11855
    Writing c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix.bsp
    37 seconds elapsed
    
    ** Executing...
    ** Command: Copy File
    ** Parameters: "C:Program FilesSteamsteamappsbagofchipssourcesdk_contenttfmapsrccp_fortress fort fix.bsp" "c:program filessteamsteamappsbagofchipsteam fortress 2tfmapscp_fortress fort fix.bsp"
    
    
     
  14. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Whenever you have an error, you can check the compile log at www.interlopers.net/errors

    I did it for you, and I got this:
    Brush ##: WARNING, microbrush

    I'm not sure what a microbrush is, other than it obviously being too small.

    You can also check your problems log (Alt+P) to see if there's anything there that can hinder your compile (never mind the "no player spawn" error, it will always be there no matter what).
     
  15. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

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    Yeah...microbrush means it's too damn small. I had these errors back in the day mapping for CS:S GG. Can also happen when you're scaling things to skybox size. :\
     
  16. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    You might've had a really small brush and when snapped to grid it became flat. Who knows.

    Anyway, I've got into the habit of running a compile with only BSP and 'don't go in game' checked anytime I do major changes.

    That'll take like 10 seconds. You'll see the compile and can check for leaks. If nothings wrong then compile with vis and lighting and go in game. Alot better then 10-20 minute compile to find you have an error.
     
  17. BagOfChips

    BagOfChips L5: Dapper Member

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    I got it going now. I read that using carve tool can cause the brushes to go off the grid. Guess I'll stop using it now.