Genesee Falls

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by cadeonehalf, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    CTF_Genesee Falls!

    WE HAVE TAKEN THE ENEMY INTELLIGENCE!

    The successful efforts of the Builder's League United Spy Dept. has revealed the location of a top secret R.E.D. missile engineering base, next to the dam at Genesee Falls!

    Brothers, we must take their base by storm, retrieve their launch codes, and blow their stupid toys into tiny little pieces!

    But beware, the enemy is cunning, and will work to undo our own chemical weapons work! Defend our waterworks from enemy sabotage at all costs!

    A SPY HAS BEEN DETECTED!
    The future of the Reliable Excavation and Demolition is at stake, comrades! A dirty BLU Frenchman has discovered our Rocket Development facility and revealed its location to his superiors! Even as I write this message on our break room bulletin board, those BLU bastards are moving in and establishing an offensive base across the falls!

    Gentlemen, we must charge across that river, break down that door, and steal that briefcase! Discover the weapons of our enemy and use it against them! TO WAR!

    ctf_geneseefalls is a standard 2 flag Capture the Flag map set between a waterfall and a dam. The intelligence room for both teams is very open and accessible to prevent turtling, combined with a number of more confined corridors to give Heavies and Pyros strategic importance.

    Since it's in the initial release, I would LOVE feedback regarding
    -Effectiveness of Layout for Gameplay
    -Appropriate Signage

    Thanks to A Boojum Snark, Ravidge, Acegikmo for their wonderful resource packs.
    Special thanks goes to everyone in this forum for their help in building cubemaps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  2. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    An overhead view would be nice
     
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  3. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    Delivered. :D

    Sorry for the bright green, couldn't figure out how to change the background on the level overview.
     
  4. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    Gameday Bump!

    So the most common sentiment from Gameday was:
    -Water was too dark/deep
    -Bases were too complex
    -Intel room was too open.

    I like the open intel room concept, but Clearly need to chop off a lot of the side routes and open space in the center to make this map work

    any other ideas on how to simplify/shrink the map?
     
  5. Flame

    aa Flame

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    this was probably my favorite looking map of gameday.

    make mid less wide, shave off the excess to narrow the amount of area for fighting.

    get rid of the small narrow hallways under the bases where the mouth to the water is, seemed chokey and not well done.

    also get rid of some of the useless area in the base and make them smaller. mid is very nice looking and your spawns need work since i was able to get into the enemy spawn as demoman on the other team =X
     
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  6. Smetzle

    Smetzle L3: Member

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    The water texture makes underwater enemies invisible when you're above the water. I would change it, maybe to water_2fort.
     
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  7. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Yes the central area is very nice, even at this stage.
    Flame nailed almost everything so far. Simplify the design of the base, give less routes in the central area, maybe alternate more between deep and shallow water. Arrange things in order to let people guess where a player fleeing with intel can go. With simpler bases, more action will take place in the central area and you'll get feedback to refine it.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  8. SPHinx

    SPHinx L2: Junior Member

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    I second Flame's and Uriak's comments. Love the center. Want to see more of the action there.
     
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  9. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    So when it comes to simplifying, I'm considering the following (no screenshots as I'm typing @ work)

    -Remove that basement-level spawn exit entirely.
    -Shrink the intel room juuuust a little bit. It's designed to be difficult to defend to prevent excessive turtling but I think yesterday's test revealed its instead a race to get to the intel faster, for everyone. Would a forced switchback or wall between the main entrance and the intel help prevent that?
    -Replace the water with something less murky and make it shallower. The sentries in the water yesterday reminded me a little too much of that Team Roomba gravelpit exploit vid.

    Thanks again for the feedback, shooting for alpha 2 by the end of the week!
     
  10. Flame

    aa Flame

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    i like the water, added a cool dynamic. make it nobuild, people cant say that doesnt make sense since why would an electronic gun work underwater.

    sharkattack demoman was pretty fun. although if you make it shallow, rocket jumping in it would be really fun.

    do whatever I guess, it took me a really long time to even find the lower exit so scrapping it wont be a bad idea.
     
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  11. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    NEW AND IMPROVED!

    Genesee Falls, Version Alpha 2!

    Features:

    NEW BASE
    I simplified the base layout (which is why it's been about a week since I last updated). It should be easier to navigate and easier to track down whoever has the Intel now.
    PICS
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I ended up keeping the lower exit to the water for the time being- I want it to survive one more gameday and then see if it was really any use, what with the new base layout and all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  12. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    Bump Again for Alpha 3!
    More changes incoming with alpha 4 once I figure out why Areaportals are being so stupid.

    I'll submit Alpha 4 for gameday as well, sorry for the lack of updates lately.
     
  13. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    Triple post!
    Areaportals fixed, map updated to alpha 4!
    Changes:
    -Fixed Areaportals
    -Added better optimization
    -Restructured sewer exit for each base


    I'm submitting this for the nearest gameday (especially since it hasn't been played by a group since alpha 1). I'm looking for any last minute feedback about the layout of the map, especially the side paths for each base. Considering getting rid of a couple. I'd like to start detailing next alpha, if at all possible.
    Let me know! Any feedback given here will be reciprocated happily!
     
  14. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    Gameday Bump! Sorry I couldn't be there in time.
     
  15. Okrag

    aa Okrag Wall Staples

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    [​IMG]
    Leak.

    EDIT: Also Deadpool.
     
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  16. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    deadpool?
     
  17. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    waterfall should really be clipped, sentries inside it can be deadly (though fun)

    also, ditch the ridiculous amount of nobuilds, theres no reason why you should be preventing people from building in the water, the area around the point also has much more nobuild then is altogether needed...personally id say remove it all <_<

    Finally...the bases seem to be very complex, might want to consider simplifying them a bit. One of the things I heard in game was removal of the sewer route entirely.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  18. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    So most of the feedback I'm getting is that the base is WAAY to complex.
    After listening to the Demo, I've decided to scrap the sewer route.
    However, I also think that people were most confused within the spawn room (and guys the green is the blue texture with yellow lighting. That will be fixed in the next alpha).
    So here is my idea to fix the problem.
    This is the current base setup:
    [​IMG]
    Red lines represent paths into the intelligence room (except for the red box, that's a wall). All the entrances are on one side of the room. This is why that sentry in REd's base was so overpowered during Gameday today.
    Here is my proposed solution:
    [​IMG]
    Relocate (and vastly simplify) the spawn to this side of the intelligence room. The old Spawn can become a flanking route for the invaders. My only concern is that with the spawn being so close to the Intelligence it promotes turtling and/or makes turtling incredibly easy. Think of the random resupply downstairs in 2fort-- this is the same problem.

    I might make it so there's an exit-only entrance on the floor with the intelligence and have the spawn on the second floor only- do you think that would work?

    Here's a current changelog for the next alpha:
    -Ditch Sewer path as well as those side paths to water
    -Make Waterfall a little smaller, clip the silly thing
    -Scrap nobuild around intel room and water (since no one apparently liked that).
    -Also general simplification of existing buildings. I need to cut down on playable area in a lot of the side buildings.
     
  19. Flame

    aa Flame

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    your mid is rather large. I was going to suggest scrapping the entire back half of the bases, putting the flag closer to the mid and reducing the playing field down to essntially the middle and maybe a third of the base with the flag opposite the spawn room.

    The middle is by far the best playing space and you want most of your action to occur there. If you make the bases smaller you could put more detail into a nice looking intel room toward the upper middle of the screenshot above this post and still make the mid the focal point.

    i pretty much spawncamped red the entire time during gameday. getting out of your base shouldnt be a problem.
     
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