Gaming Day V & VI fallout and the future.

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by ryodoan, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. ryodoan

    ryodoan Resident Bum

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    Ok, so the last couple game days have been near complete blow outs (from what I hear) first I want to say I am sorry I was not there for the 8th but I was stuck at a friends house for most of the day in a Level 3 snow emergency (only allowed to drive if it is a emergency, otherwise you can be arrested).

    I think we should take this coming Saturday off so we can take the time to sort stuff out with the server and ensure that the next gaming day is more organized.

    Here are some things that I think really need to get worked out:
    1. Admins on site for game day. Every single game day we have done has been plagued by technical issues that only an admin can clear up (server updates, maps crashing servers, server not ready with the correct rotation, ect...)
    2. Exactly what servers we are going to play on. Due to the technical issues we have just said, "We will find a server at the last minute if there is a problem" I think we need to have a detailed plan for a backup server.
    3. What should we do for our European gamers. They are at least 5 hours ahead of us timezone wise and the Atlantic adds at least a 100ms ping to everyone.
    4. What do we want the goal(s) of game day to be?
    Here are my suggestions, but I would like to hear from everyone else what they think.

    1. This is really up to DrPepper since the official TF2maps.net server is his, and as such I think we should wait to here his position on this.
    2. I know in the past Youme, LittleMissPkunk, BladeRoden, and HexCrimson have all pulled through for us, I think we should decide who wants to be the backup source each game day and have them put the designated rotation on their server ahead of time. If DrPepper decides the server expense is not worth it I think we would be able to keep this going with just the support of our members.
      1. Possibly create a list of our members / members servers / server location / server IP address.
    3. I think the best idea for this is to have one of our members that has a European server to start the game day off at 4:00 PM GMT (11:00 am EST, 8:00 am PST). From 4:00 PM GMT - 9:00 PM GMT (4:00 PM EST, 1:00 PM PST) the game day will be held on the European server. Then at 4:00 PM EST we can move direct everyone to join the USA server (preferable TF2Maps.net's server) and we will stay on that server for the rest of the night.
    4. As for what the goals of the game day should be, I think that it essentially should be whatever maps people want to play. If you want to play a Valve map, so be it, if you want to play an early pre-alpha map, so be it as well. Even if you want to play an Orange map, so be it (although, you might get lynched by some of our more zealous members) :p
    So, those are my thoughts on the matter, anyone else got ideas, comments, suggestions, rants, tirades, verbal diarrhea?
     
  2. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    I definitely agree with this. It's the maps we intend to play that provide structure for gameday. The map list is what gives us an agenda and makes it a TF2maps.net Event, rather than just a bunch of us popping onto a random custom maps server and running around.
     
  3. MacNetron

    MacNetron L5: Dapper Member

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    1) if one or two people could be made admin-for-a-day, that should be a good idea.
    2) Youmes server should be available 24-7. I recall a remark from him that it only runs custom maps. "Why did'nt you come to my server? It was up and running with custom maps!".
    3) And Youmes server is an EU-server. Timeslot is kinda okay, but note it is crossing dinner-times.
    4) I think Game-day is there for the gaming experience. That mean beta maps, not alpha ones. Those are better for Testing-day. Maps run on the server are preferably custom ones.

    I'm currently trying to see how difficult it is to develop a webapp that is able to configure simple things like mapcycle.txt, server.cfg and uploading maps to a server.
    I already managed to do ftp-things in the webapp, so it's looking good.
     
  4. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    As previously mentioned, it's not enough for a server to just be running custom maps. The list of maps to play is the important thing that was lacking from the equation there. Otherwise there are plenty of servers that just run custom maps that we could have all joined. If we want to be able to consider a server for use during gameday, 1) the server must be set up with those maps uploaded and readily accessible, and 2) an admin must be on hand. The importance of communication and participation cannot be overstated.

    We all can be a valuable resource to each other. It would be selfish and rude to ignore those who want feedback from fellow mappers about a map they are working on, simply because people just want to have fun. One can do that anytime they like, not just during a scheduled event. Gameday may be one of the only opportunities someone has to get their map on an active server for testing. Why would we deny them that? Also, it would be silly to have separate events for "gaming experience" and "testing". Why would a mapping community schedule an event that had nothing to do with mapping?
     
  5. MacNetron

    MacNetron L5: Dapper Member

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    okay, thought I was the first reacting to ryodoan, but Shmitz beated me.
    And after reading his comments in the other thread:

    I don't say it's only gaming and not looking for remarks on the map.

    It might be wise to redefine "TF2's game-day".
    If you also want players to check things like: "engineers trying to find a good spot for a sentry and communicating with other people if they can see the sentry" then you don't want an enemy player shooting those ppl.
    Those rules should be clear from the start.

    Maybe we should switch each week between Game-day and Testing-day.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  6. MacNetron

    MacNetron L5: Dapper Member

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    LOL! Stop it, you did it again! Stop posting while I type a response! :p
     
  7. ryodoan

    ryodoan Resident Bum

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    While I am very happy that Youme is willing to let us use his server, the issue I see with it is that I think (I am not certain) that most of our members are based in the Americas. Since Youme's server is UK based, that is an automatic 100+ ms ping for everyone in the Americas.

    I also understand that we have a large amount of people that are active in Europe and they face the same problem when we use a US based server. That is why I think a split game day would work best, spend the first 4-5 hours on a server in Europe during prime play time in Europe when its still early in the US, then move everyone to a US based server for the remainder of the night.

    *edit* to respond to MacNetron
    If we turn All-Talk on on the server on maps that we are "testing" and not just playing, then that would solve that problem. Then, if someone is a dick about it and ignores the all-talk commands we can give them a console warning, then kick them if they still keep forcing it. This is one of the reasons I think its key that we have an admin presence on the server.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  8. DJive

    aa DJive Cake or Death?

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    about Youme's server. I live in NY and am on a wireless connection. my ping on the server is around 60-85ms which to be honest.. isn't bad and certainly not "unplayable"

    Having played on the server a few i've noticed that it has more then a few regulars which is great for gameplay.
     
  9. ryodoan

    ryodoan Resident Bum

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    Hmm, I will have to try it again. I live in the Eastern-Midwest USA (ohio), but my Internet connection for TF2 has been really bad lately and I am not sure why.

    Guess I will add that to the list of things I need to do...
     
  10. Vander

    Vander L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Construction of a PLAN B!

    -- Today -- Make a list of willing and able server operators and place them on a 'pm' list.

    -- Every Monday -- Maplists pmed to operators for weekly map rotations.

    -- Every Monday -- Server operators upload maps, and have rotation lists ready. (Remember! These maps need not be in rotation on the server, just loaded and accessible.)



    Weekly Plan A: Gaming on TF2Maps.net server at designated time.

    OOPS!! regular server down/admins have been shanghaied/ someone didn't pay the server rental bill/ etc... WTFOMFG No Gamez dai! Suxorz!!! :eek:hmy:

    Never fear! :thumbup:

    Weekly Plan B: TF2Maps.net users, being an uncommonly smart bunch, join the TF2Maps.net steam chat. Chat ensues... A willing and able server operator steps up, loads the map rotation file and BOOM! Gaming...TF2Maps.net style. :lol: :laugh: :001_wub:
     
  11. Vander

    Vander L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    By the way, count me in as "willing and able server operator". I have a centrally located, 20 man server and have access to change the map rotation at a moments notice.
     
  12. Sean of the Dead

    Sean of the Dead L3: Member

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    Im still waiting and hopeing Immortal-D will make me an admin :D
    I've been an admin for several servers in the past, and would like to be an admin for our server, to help with gamedays, and whenever people are playing.
     
  13. ryodoan

    ryodoan Resident Bum

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    Go Here: http://tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=1313
     
  14. Vander

    Vander L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Posted!
     
  15. dirtyminuth

    dirtyminuth L5: Dapper Member

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    Couple thoughts:

    * Youme runs a great server. However, if we're designating an official tf2maps.net server, we need at least one in the UK and one in the US. I'm in California and my ping to the UK is 150 on a good day. I don't like to play engineer all the time.

    * We need to give regulars admin powers on the official server. If this doesn't happen, I don't want to rely on it for gameday.

    * I argue the purpose of gameday is to give the mapper's eye to all maps on the rotation, which boils down to more thorough playtesting on top of regular play. This includes providing more active feedback (voice chat comments, and especially message board feedback), exploit and visual glitch hunting, and attempting to abuse the hell out of the map. Found a great sentry location? Place a gun there and let the other players deal with it. Found a hole in a spawn gate you can snipe through? Do it. Think you could spawn camp easily? Try it. However, once it's been done, note it and move on.

    * During gamedays, make sure the server has alltalk enabled.

    * There has to be a lower bar for map quality that's acceptable. For gameday, that bar can be fairly low. The map must have a working entity system and must be reasonably lit. Placeholder textures, architecture, and models are acceptable. This is subjective, but we should have the opportunity to veto any suggested maps for the next gameday.
     
  16. ryodoan

    ryodoan Resident Bum

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    Good ideas, and I think the veto idea has merit, but I think it will need to be a veto by popular consensus, not just one person that does not like the map.
     
  17. Colt Seavers

    Colt Seavers L6: Sharp Member

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    Hi Guys :D This seems like an appropriate post for me to pop up in :p

    I hope that any teething troubles with game days are over for you now.
    On the custom map lab every day is a test day to a huge extent. The only difference is all talk is off (but ventrilo is on - you are all welcome to join us if you've said hi on our forum). We also have a policy of insisting all feedback is posted on the forum (or tf2maps.net), since from experience, this keeps temperatures right for fun gaming also ;)

    All the Playground Servers are supported by a rather huge team of admins.
    So, at any time, if you want to play your map - jump on the server - type '@ message' in chat saying something like 'hello admin - i'm from tf2maps.net and i made X map. Could I request we play it tonight?' If the admin is doing his or her job right (and they always do in my experience) the map will be selected shortly. It may not be next - but it will be soon.

    If you want a thorough look for glitches - jump on at a quieter time, grab one of the admins (youme's a good start point) and they will ensure everyone on the server takes part constructively.

    Finally, Just say the word for passworded Test Days - they can happen as often as you like....weekly, twice weekly, and we will ensure there's no foul play and they go to plan ;) We have plenty of back up resources in emergencies.

    Hope you enjoy :cool:

    Colt

    PS If you are registered on the coltsplayground.net forum, and get your map to beta release, and the Playground Server regulars, on the Teamplay server and in my view, love your work, I will acknowledge that by granting you admin rights on the custom map server - a tip of the hat from me which is intended to grant you the freedom to select appropriate maps yourself when in game and enjoy the playground the way it's supposed to be ;)
     
  18. DJive

    aa DJive Cake or Death?

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    For all TF2maps.net Members;

    It is very important to take the time to Register at coltsplayground.net.

    Like Colt Seavers had mentoned. Registering at coltsplayground will allow mappers to schedule play tests and get in touch with an active community willing and excited to play custom maps. This will allow better feedback on gameplay and design of custom maps.

    Lets face it guys.. for both parties this is a win/win.

    Coltsplayground gets to run through some of the best and upcoming maps available and provide limitless feedback.

    TF2Maps.net gets to have access to a HUGE community and popular server for playtesting and a dedicated community willing and wanting to provide feedback to our mappers.

    Please all take the time and register over at http://www.coltsplayground.net/ and become familiar with the Staff.

    Thanks All !!
     
  19. Koei

    Koei L4: Comfortable Member

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    If you really want to organize an European gamenight I might be able to arrange a powerful 32-slot NL based server. I have no trouble filling it with that many players. My community organizes weekly private gaming nights, and it's always filled to the max. We are also looking for new maps to play on the server. Most played maps on our server are dustbowl, gravelpit, turbine, castle & warpath/lazytown (which are pretty boring and straight forward). As for admin powers, I can't upload the maps but the admin has always been quick with new map suggestions. I got basic admin powers on the server and can change the map. Feedbackwise I can enable alltalk & there is always team play going on.
     
  20. DJive

    aa DJive Cake or Death?

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