CP Frostline

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Mr. Happy, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. Mr. Happy

    Mr. Happy L6: Sharp Member

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    Three stage attack and defend! My design places the three stages in a stack, like a wedding cake, with the main route spiraling up the edge of a mountain around a central core. The central core is a giant cave that each stage will have small routes that border it's edge. The final point will be on a rock outcropping above everything else in the cave. I'll upload my drawings tommorow.

    Style wise: alpine, transitioning from dirt/grass in the first stage to snow on the third.

    For the first test the map was called aspiration.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2011
  2. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    Major propspam on the roof in the first screenshot; fix it. That roof is also a huge advantage to RED; soldiers and sentry guns could easily lock down all of BLU spawn. Also, something about that lower path bothers me; I suggest cutting the path at the stairs and changing the stairs themselves to begin closer to BLU spawn (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2867220/likethis.PNG arrows indicate ramps, low -> high).
     
  3. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Gorge is all about major prop spam and it does fine. That area is isolated so I think it'll be alright. Just make sure your optimization skills make up for it.
     
  4. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    Yes, but Gorge propspam makes sense. In this map, every type of barrel is just thrown onto a roof. Try to keep to one theme, instead of mixing water barrels with beer/alcohol and radioactive material barrels.
     
  5. Psy

    aa Psy The Imp Queen

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    It's an alpha. They might be temporary until he can come up with something that has more context.
     
  6. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    This is true.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2011
  7. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    -LeSwordfish, just now.
     
  8. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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  9. Mr. Happy

    Mr. Happy L6: Sharp Member

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    This. It's the second alpha for which I'm just experimenting with the shape of cover. Third alpha will have layout changes, and thanks for that pic you drew seba I was thinking that that needed to change. I'm considering splitting the lower route in half as well, so that the first part doesn't connect to the second part and you are forced back up onto the main area for a few yards.

    Fixed a couple random bugs. 1A3: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4516
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2011
  10. Mr. Happy

    Mr. Happy L6: Sharp Member

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    Updated to alpha 4 with major layout changes. I moved the blu spawn forward and used it to block the lower doors into the cave and adjacent room. The thinking behind this was that people were using those entrances to go through the cave to B straight away as the main path rather than as a risky-but-advantageous-for-blu-engy side path. I may further disconnect it from the side cave as I left in the drop down to the main cave from the side cave if need be. I also changed the way the tunnel that is between A and B connects to the bottom of the main cave, and the way the bottom of the main cave connects to the rear CP B route to make them shorter and riskier (fall death).

    Further more I revamped the lower route. Since the blu spawn was moved forward and that first area edited the edge of the cliff now starts at the main ground height and does not decrease until the (now simplified) first stair case. Also, the lower route is taller to decrease the trapped feeling. Also I added an awning over part of it to protect it from Red @ A. All in all the lower route should be more viable as a side route in the event that red locks down A.

    http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4523
     
  11. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Was pretty fun during game day.

    It definitely had some way too dark caves.

    And maybe too many routes. I like the cave routes and stuff but it's almost maze like. Would be best to have one main path, then just a few splits off that come back near each other so players don't get scattered/lost as easy.

    And the balcony over the last point seemed over powered, once Blu found it (I don't think we did) the entire red team was out front running around and Blu was swarming in behind for the cap. With demos and solys up there it was hard to get out near the point and I didn't have time to find the path up there.

    Blu seemed to really have all the high ground at last point. And with last point up on that platfform it felt hard to even get to to defend.
    (the 2nd point, 2nd round of dust is similar, but the ramps are directly next to the point, yours are a bit aways so it takes awhile to get around to them)
     
  12. Mr. Happy

    Mr. Happy L6: Sharp Member

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    Thanks for your comments dude, and thanks to everyone who played it and left comments in the feedback system.

    I've updated the map hugely:

    http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4574

    1A8
    I rechecked the feedback system after releasing 1A7 and decided to update real quick. Sorry to the three people that downloaded 1A7! Thanks to yyler for the following ideas:
    *changed red side cave entrance so it requires a trick jump from blu-side (original intent was for it to help red engies)
    *changed sightline from blu side building. Can no longer jump in window or snipe sentrys in CP
    *adjusted cave health
    *adjusted hints
    *minor displacement tweaks


    1A7
    Still just the first stage but much improved in all ways. I got alot of great feedback from everyone, here's a few specific things people asked for:

    *improved dbl-jumping to first point
    *removed extraneous 'back-door' routes (left in a couple balconeys for jumpers though)
    *made second point more defensible
    --geometry
    --increased cap timer 1 second (first cp too)
    *enlarged building that leads to second point back route
    *reworked a couple ralings
    *lower areas should be alot more useful and their structure should make more sense for their intended function

    Also I:
    *reworked optimization completely
    --better hinting and map structure, greatly reduced overdraw and extraneous vis
    --added fade distances
    --do need to REMOVE some hints since there are many extraneous leafs
    *better areaportals
    *func_lod's

    *smoothed flow in some routes to match function better
    *removed a stair to first cp
    *adjusted signs

    http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4574


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Caves simplified even further ;)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4574
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  13. Mr. Happy

    Mr. Happy L6: Sharp Member

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    Updated to 1a9 for the impromptu today:
    *closed off sloppy spare routes
    *reduced health/ammo
    *blocked off route to lower balconey over blu spawn
    *rebuilt approach to B
    *shortened approach to B

    2a0 is COMING SOON (for friday gameday):
    [​IMG]
     
  14. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

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    That is a lot of open space :O
     
  15. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    Rebuild the last point, it is just not going to work.

    There is only two routes there, red spawn right next to point and it is just really sentry friendly no matter what way you look it. I would go far as saying B is black spot on otherwise pretty solid A/D map, because everything else was fun and enjoyable.
     
  16. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Red have only one route to A, and i kept accidentally finding myself in a massive height advantage over the blu spawn. Wilson is right, i didnt enjoy B much. the alternate route to it was very separate, and blu could have held it much easier and been much more efficient with it if theyd had the competence to setup a full sentry not a minisentry on the cliff.

    A seemed fun though, i was enjoying attacking and defending that.
     
  17. Mr. Happy

    Mr. Happy L6: Sharp Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely change it up, gonna test it a bit more as it is now though since I've focused on the second stage (which the screenshot above no longer reflects, and will be uploaded soon) and since some people say "too hard to defend" and some people say "too hard to attack," well, I want to collect more datas.
     
  18. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    That "too hard to defend" feedback from the test was sarcasm. (This why sarcasm is bad idea trough feedback system people!)
     
  19. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    RED need space behind what is presumably CP2 on stage 2 of a 3 stage map:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9300049/WIPs/frostline_stage2_a0.PNG

    This should help reduce what would otherwise technically be spawn camping and change what is othewise a battle of attrition for RED and the CP location. RED were literally getting slaughtered from what it looked like as a BLU player and the only real defence were sentries under cliff edges and the spam rockets from spawning soldiers.

    I never really formed an opinion on the early areas, besides aesthetically the shadows bothering me. All the block shadow is boring and you should mix it up so the map looks more visually appealing; giving off better first impressions.

    The only other thing would be that the cave area is much like a labirynth. I didn't get lost "per se", but it took several explorations of the routes to discover which was the proper way (what with all the winding paths that double back on themselves). Use overly dirt paths to influence player flow.

    You should maybe look to making the main path more obvious with lights and larger (or remove entirely) "doorways", because the route that comes up to CP1 is real convoluted and exposed (ambushes). It felt more like a flank as whilst my team met the defenders and their sentry nests head on i flanked in the main route, took out many many players and captured the point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011
  20. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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