CTF Fool'sGravel A3

The CTF map formerly known as Shaft

  1. RodionJenga

    RodionJenga L5: Dapper Member

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    Fool'sGravel - The CTF map formerly known as Shaft

    Underground mine/cave-themed vanilla capture the flag map. As an alpha, I tried to put in as few textures and props as i could, but I was weak.

    Actually the third iteration of a "central bottomless pit" concept I've been toying around with for a few years, going by ctf_shaft. Then I read a thread here about how phallic that name sounds...still open to name changes if it comes to that.

    Some questions in case people need starting off points:

    -Is mid too long? Too narrow? I feel like the...
     
  2. ades

    ades L4: Comfortable Member

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    this is neat
     
  3. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Looks interesting! I like the name, too.
     
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  4. munchkino

    munchkino L1: Registered

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    As far as I can tell it looks like this CTF can work (coming from inexperienced mapper). Mid does seem a little bright but I've never heard of that being bad. I really like to idea of being in a cave and your displacements look great.

    Speaking of displacements do you have any suggestions on how to make my displacements better/easier to make good? Thx!

    I was going to make a map called fools gold but it seems you beat me to the idea :(
     
  5. RodionJenga

    RodionJenga L5: Dapper Member

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  6. JMaxchill

    JMaxchill L5: Dapper Member

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    We played this yesterday and I got repeatedly lost underground - it's one colour, with no signs or anything. Try adding more team colours and signs, to make it clearer where you should go
     
  7. RodionJenga

    RodionJenga L5: Dapper Member

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    Well, it's all underground and 99% dev texture, but I'll def add more signs in a2
     
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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
  8. munchkino

    munchkino L1: Registered

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  9. RodionJenga

    RodionJenga L5: Dapper Member

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    Ok, so apparently this was in an EU improv yesterday, so that's cool! Here are some noted goals for a2, based on feedback.

    -Noted Error: One red resupply cabinet is still set to blue and is nonfunctional. The other one is fine.
    -Noted Error: Playerclip at top of shaft is not working. Accidentally set it to func_brush :/
    -Increase team-based and directional signage
    -Make intel walls thinner, possibly replace gate props with brushwork that will allow a taller door.
    -Attempt to raise height of roofs in the vent route
    -Look into clipping/noclipping lanterns
    -Possibly change orange dev textures to white dev textures? Sticking with some sort of dev texture for now until layout is solidified.
     
  10. RodionJenga

    RodionJenga L5: Dapper Member

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    And more thanks to the US Gameday players! Got some of the same feedback, but lots of new stuff too! Including:

    -Angle spawn exit to give more incentive to go towards mid and other team
    -Troubleshoot my func_respawnflag. Seems to be there but wasn't working at some point
    -Fix spectate camera roll
    -Nerf barbed wire damage
    -Nerf vent route, possibly try to prevent vent-vent jumps
    -Additional mid cover
    -Funky cool minecart train idea for mid-intel (thanks _man)! Might have to take a few glitchy passes at that.

    Ok, this seems to be plenty enough to bake an a2 out of, working on that next
     
  11. RodionJenga

    RodionJenga L5: Dapper Member

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    Here's what's new:
    foolsgravela2 redspawn.jpg -Your wish has been granted. All orange textures have been changed to grey. Grey as far as the eye can see. (Maniacal laughter). Except for this additional brown bit here.
    -The area around the main spawn doors have changed, to hopefully increase flow towards mid. Also aesthetics.
    foolsgravela2 bluewire.jpg
    -The wire room damage has been lowered from 50 hp/sec to 20 hp/sec. -Also colorized the walls to make it more clear which intel it goes to.
    -Removed some unnecessary lights
    foolsgravela2 pitbridge.jpg
    -Changed central pipes to a rail bridge because aesthetics. Nothing runs on them. Yet. Also where did those pipes even go to?
    -Central health kit promoted to full
    -One-way doors added to vent route to prevent vent to vent jumps, which let people cap in like 5 seconds
    -Upper side tunnel was widened and angled for better access

    Additional, not pictured changes
    -Intel doors are now larger, brush based
    -red locker #1, playerclip at top of shaft and flag respawn now actually work
    -Some signs, lights and train tidbits added/changed

    As before, I'll try to respond to any questions as soon as I see them. Thanks all!
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  12. RodionJenga

    RodionJenga L5: Dapper Member

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    Here's what's new:


    -Fa├žades! And other textures and overlays added to make knowing which side of the map you're in easier.
    -Barriers! For additional mid cover and definitely not the result of handouts from the powerful demoknight cabal


    -Shaft-side holes! If this turns out to be a bad idea, I'll just throw some impenetrable caution tape on there


    -Longer vent route!
    -Vent route now identifiable as vents!
    -Vent health demoted to small


    -Generally "more posters/props, less arrows"


    -I went a bit further than I should have with textures and overlays, but all with the interests of knowing which base you're in at heart.
    -Also that ammo pack was demoted to small


    -Elevator spawn exit is now unbuildable!


    -Other minor changes, not the least of which is 100% increased chance of stalemates!
    -Also, I moved the potato. Shhhh...

    As always, I'll try to respond to any questions and feedback as soon as I see them. Thanks all!

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  13. Egan

    aa Egan

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    Short video feedback of _a3: https://youtu .be/mbQoTMz6LH4

    I think at this point the heavy focus on routes leading everywhere is confusing to players - not necessarily just 'on which direction do I go' but also 'which direction are they taking my intel and how do I intercept them'. Honestly I may recommend removing either the mid vent route or the barbed wire route, unless you can navigate them more along the main route somehow. Just having both was distracting my team when I wanted to push mid to control the enemy territory - to push into the intel area. Unless, that's intentional, that you shouldn't be able to push through mid and that you have to rely on the gimmicky side routes.
     
  14. RodionJenga

    RodionJenga L5: Dapper Member

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    Hey, all.
    It's been educational and even a bit fun to play whack-a-mole with various small issues in my map, but looking at all the feedback at once, I've begun to see some trends.

    In a phrase: "It's CTF"

    Now this isn't just blind hatred for the gamemode. Or maybe it is but it's for actual reasons. Generally this was feedback which falls under the heading of what people say when asked why they don't like CTF. Things like Engineers camping the intel, routes to the intel that go past spawn, long stalemate-y rounds, etc.

    So while i feel like i did a good job taking inspiration from existing Valve maps, and this may make it somewhat comparable to them, that doesn't make it a good map if the existing maps aren't enjoyed. They are quite played, and some of my personal favorite maps are CTF. But I trust the TF2Maps community to be representative of thoughtful, intelligent players.

    So existing CTF maps are not good things to emulate. The gamemode as it is today has flaws.

    That's why my new goal will be to improve on those flaws. To make CTF+, CTF 2.0

    I may still be improving on Fool's Gravel. It's dear to me. But for the time being, I'll be looking at what balancing changes I can make to the game mode with more generic maps.
     
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  15. Turnip

    aa Turnip The 80s Vegetable

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    Sawmill did a pretty good job at CTF.