Flowing river- gimmick or not?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by cornontheCoD, Oct 20, 2008.

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Flowing river- What should I do with it?

  1. Yes! Moving water texture, and have a push trigger

    22 vote(s)
    75.9%
  2. Yes, Moving texture, but no push

    5 vote(s)
    17.2%
  3. No, just have a normal still river

    2 vote(s)
    6.9%
  4. No river at all

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. cornontheCoD

    cornontheCoD L7: Fancy Member

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    hey guys,
    so for my new map I am planning, I am planning on having a river in it. Now, I hate gimmicks, so I am trying my hardest to make this a legitimate part of the map. I want to make it flowing (in the direction of the payload track), with a push texture. I want your guys' opinion on what I should do with it. answer the poll please.
     
  2. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    I think that if well executed can be a good adittion to the map. Helping heavies and the other slower classes to reach their destiny is always good, and it doesn't null the engy's teleporter since the river will be a predictable path (and the tele would be faster anyway).
     
  3. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    haha no way it's gimmick, and what if it is?
     
  4. cornontheCoD

    cornontheCoD L7: Fancy Member

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    hmm, well I originally was going to do a payload map, but I think I am going to do a gravelpit-style map (yes I changed my mind that quick :p)

    should I have the river in the gravelpit-style map? I cant decide, because I don't know which point(s) I would put it at. I guess it would be pretty cool to have it at C. I want to make a good gravelpit-style map, because I love gravelpit :)
     
  5. Apom

    Apom L6: Sharp Member

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    The question "is it a gimmick?" is essentially equivalent to "does Valve have one in any of the official maps?". At least, that's how I see it - if a line must be drawn, this one sounds fairly objective.

    Not to say that you shouldn't do it, I love gimmicks when they are properly done.
     
  6. cornontheCoD

    cornontheCoD L7: Fancy Member

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    ^hmmm, that is true. The concept of Steel would sound like a gimmick to most people, but the creator did a great job with it. I guess I just have to establish it as a valid gameplay mechanic. I will try my hardest to balance it.
     
  7. Altaco

    Altaco L7: Fancy Member

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    In my opinion it'd be best as a flowing river, but just with a very weak push so if someone jumps in, they'll slowly drift downstream, so it's neat but doesn't influence gameplay too much.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    This is exactly what I was thinking as well.
     
  9. Cat™

    Cat™ L1: Registered

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    Thirded on this.
     
  10. Splat

    Splat L1: Registered

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    Son of a bitch, I just had this idea today.
     
  11. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    I'd agree to this too, something really really light.

    Not sure how you could fit it into a gravelpit style map though.
     
  12. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    That's easy... have the push adjust based on how many points the attackers have captured. It'd be cool on a map with a large dam, where C is at the dam itself. Then capping A and B give you easier access to C since the flow is reduced.

    Or have it on a map like aerospace or lumberyard, where there's a big dropoff on one side. A light flow to that side and a waterfall of death could be good fun. Anyone not paying attention if they're fighting in the water would end up dead.
     
  13. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Fourthed. but make sure it doesn't move too fast and that the push isn't overwhelmingly strong, it should be slight but noticable.
     
  14. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    Not a gimmick, but the trigger push will piss people off.
    Also, look at cs_militia, model the river and do it like they did, it's way better than bruswork.
     
  15. Psyphil

    Psyphil L3: Member

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    Let me get this right, you haven't made the map or layout or anything yet?

    Why not making the layout first and then deside if it should be a river or not, would be much easier to see if it fits the map and gameplay.
     
  16. Big Lou

    Big Lou L3: Member

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    TBH, I wouldn't make it a push, as those glitch in large areas. I would instead place a conveyor below the water.
     
  17. Laz

    Laz L7: Fancy Member

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    if executed will this could be a real map-maker. if not, it'll be a map breaker.

    This element could give slower classes an option of getting to the frontlines faster, at the cost of taking a more exposed route.

    this could provide great ambush spots for pyro, sniper, ... oh the possibilities!
     
  18. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    By the way, a "gimmick" like this would have felt far more natural than say, the teleporters from aqua...
     
  19. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    I woul have loved to put a river in my map that would sweep people to their doom - muhahahahahahahahah:sneaky2:

    but as it is, I just had to settle for a death pit :p

    I think it all depends on the map - you have to ask - does this fit?

    If yes, then, go for it.
    If maybe, side on the caution and don't do it.
    If no, it sticks out like a sore thumb then that's your answer.

    However, think of all the maps currently out there, especially the valve maps.
    None that I've seen truly have moving water in them and perhaps there's a reason valve has for that.

    In my map I couldn't get the waterfall to work, even with a big amount of thanks to everyone who helped me out trying to do it. Then in trying to fix my issue, I looked at, sorry can't remember you name off the top of my head, one of our members maps that has a waterfall in and and although I saw the waterfall there I didn't see the water, I saw a blue texture with some signs of movement but this might be a video card issue.

    If it's a video card issue, perhaps this is why valve didn't go this way - maybe people's video cards could or couldn't handle it. Can you imagine Valve releasing TF2 with moving water only to have it show up as a blue moving texture - they'd be shooting themslves in the foot and the game would have it's reputation killed right at the start. So maybe this why they stayed away from it.

    On a further note, and perhaps this will help us all, the only place I can remember seeing moving water in a valve map was HL2-Episode 1 (?) Remember the sequence where you're driving around in the boat? Well there's a part where you get in the boat and drive it over the edge of the dam and a new map loads. This new map ( I wish I knew the segment name) when loaded gives you the user the opportunity to look back at the dam to see the water coming down and if we ripped the code apart we could maybe see how valve did it to do the same in out maps. If we did it this way, tehn we could say based on valve did it this way here rule then we could do the same on our maps and therefore it would qualify as a gimmick.

    Just random thoughts from a bug.
     
  20. cornontheCoD

    cornontheCoD L7: Fancy Member

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    Well, to whoever said that I should wait until I map it to see if it fits, thats the point. I am trying to see from the beginning if it is a valid gameplay mechanic to base part of a map around. This is a huge part of the map (figuratively), and I dont want to have to scrap the entire thing because of one bad design call.

    I remember reading a book about level design. The author said that more time working on a map does not make it better. He said that if he spent a long time on a map, it was because of an initial bad design, and he took all the time fixing those problems. I want to eliminate the chances of that.

    I currently have drawn out a layout, and right now I have a semi wide river, and cap C (gravelpit style) is on a platform over the river. I am following the premise of steel's and gravelpit's last point: dont fall off. If you do fall off, you would fall into the river and float a little downstream. I dont know if I want to have it yet though. tough decision.

    If I do have it though, I will be sure to have it a very light push. I don't think I will be going with the flowing river though. Maybe a still body of water?