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CP Fern A5

3 CP A/D map with a scandinavien forest theme.

  1. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    Fern - 3 CP A/D map with a scandinavien forest theme.

    This is the second map i have worked on!

    The map is a 3 control points Attack/Defend map. It has a scandinavien forest as the theme. I am planning on making this some kind of storage house for wood.
    The name fern is based on all the fern plants there are in scandinavia (It was also not taken!).


    Would love getting some feedback and it woudl be great if you would test the map too!
    I am still new to mapping, so my brush work is kinda sloppy and my optimization is not that great!
    I'm also still working on the last point! It feels like it could use some work, but ill wait for some feedback on that!
     
  2. ExtraCheesyPie

    ExtraCheesyPie L7: Fancy Member

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    How many ferns are in the map? Because if there's not enough, it's considered false advertisement.
     
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  3. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    There is a lot of ferns! but im gonna add more, when i start really detailing! Of course too many will slow down low tier PCs, so too many would maybe be a bad idea.
     
  4. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunkā„¢

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    Did you just make a slanted spec camera and then fly around in spec taking screenshots or is the entire map on a dutch tilt?
     
  5. ExtraCheesyPie

    ExtraCheesyPie L7: Fancy Member

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    It's more cinematic that way
     
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  6. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    I used source filmmaker
     
  7. Turnip

    aa Turnip The 80s Vegetable

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    This map looks sad, (NO OFFENCE ITS A COMPLIMENT LEMME EXPLAIN)
    The map looks like sawmill's environment, something I havent seen in a while, well done.
     
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  8. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    Thank you. I have used sawmill as a reference! I really love sawmill's asthetics and details.
     
  9. Cytosolic

    Cytosolic L4: Comfortable Member

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    First of all the map looks great! Perhaps even a bit too detailed for alpha. The dark, sawmill(ish) aesthetic works really well and gives the map a rather somber feel. Besides a few graphic, texture alignment bugs your brush work looks good.

    Unfortunately I found a few major flaws in the layout that will need some attention. Firstly... the sight lines. <Ominous Music Plays> Having even one or two large sight lines can be a problem. Not only for game play reasons but for optimization reasons as well. If I look down towards the second point from the first point I can see all the way to the far cliff wall. I'm having to load half the map at once when I don't really need too. The same goes for long hallways. So having one large sight line isn't the end off the world it doesn't help anything, it just makes things worse. Your map has several of these sight lines.I would suggest looking at other large maps to see how they handle long sight lines like the ones on your map.


    The other thing I'd like to mention is your spawns and pacing. Firstly, BLU spawns right on top off cp 1. It's then just a short walk to cp 2 and then a huge walk(relatively speaking) to cp 3, even with the forward spawn. Also, I'm not sure if the forward BLU spawn is entirely necessary, only play testing will tell. At the pace Blu will easily take control of A, after an short walk and period take B, then be slammed into a brutal choke point at C. That doesn't sound like fun for RED or BLU. Note: this is all educated speculation on my part.

    A couple solutions too this problem would be too 1) (Not recommended) deleting cap A and making it 2 cp map. 2) (recommended) Moving cap B closer to Cap C and moving Blu Spawn farther away from Cap A. Take a look at official maps like Mountain Lab or Gorge to see how they pace there Cap points.

    Also, most of you Spawn exits lead into narrow, cramped corridors or ramps, making it extremely difficult to get anything short of an Uber to get though all the Demo and Soldier Spam which dominate small enclosed areas like this with splash damage. Lastly, RED spawn feels like it's in the middle of no where, making you walk quite a while to get to the action.



    As for Cap C, I agree it needs some work. I'd suggest trying to make it more unique and dynamic. Make it that point where everybody will recognize your map just from a screen shot of it. Look at the final points on other maps and see how they look and play. Make it Big, Make it Grand, Make it say "this is it" or "Here we are," "The end." Make it memorable.

    Well, I hope this helped a bit, and don't forget to Play Test!

    ~Cyto
     
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  10. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks for the good feedback!
    I agree with the A point being too hard for red. Maybe a path to A that closes when A is capped would be a good idea. Then you have to walk to B through the normal route. I originally had the route from red spawn be right at A, but it just seemed to be way too easy for Red to just respawn and be at A.

    I think B should be moved closer to the waterfall! Gives me a chance to add some structure to maybe remove the sightlines! The C point should probably be redone! I agree that it doesn't feel like a finally. I think i should remove the back wall to get more space! Make it a big room with wood, to show that this is where they store it, since i mean it to be a storage building!
    The drop-off there is on the way to C, i think is actually a fun way to fight the enemy. If they are camping at the choke point, you can use it to take down sentries, or enemies. I do think it's location should be moved a bit more back. Though i am determined to figure out how to make it work well in a common match!

    I also agree that i worked on the details a little early. I personally find detailing to be the most fun, so i just couldn't stop myself from adding a few touches!
     
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  11. Cytosolic

    Cytosolic L4: Comfortable Member

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    I'm glad I helped!

    I would recommend moving Blue Spawn back a bit. This way either team won't get slammed right off the bat when the gates open. It gives Blu a little time too address the situation and move in when there ready instead of being immediately thrown in to a race for the Cap. Also Red will have a chance to keep up a stronger defense.

    I think moving B back would be a great idea! Maybe it could be on a bridge over the river? Or maybe set against the cliff. either way just be careful to keep your sight lines short. You could try making the layout more bendy. instead of a U shape it could be more of a G, N, or W shape. just make sure you don't make your choke points too long or narrow.

    Crazy idea for C would be to make it outside. you could add a ledge and a bit off vertical gameplay. Maybe a couple ramps/stairs up and a better position for Red to spawn in and defend.
    cp_fern_a2 cap C idea.png


    Don't worry about adding "Too" much detail. just keep in mind that the more detailed an area is, the harder it is to change later on. It would really suck to fully detail a map right out of the gate and then find out it was a terrible layout and you'd have to start all over.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  12. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    I think im gonna add elevation, like the start of badlands! That should hopefully make ot harder to exploit the sightlines. I like your idea for c, where the cap it self is open. I think ill make the are bigger though. A3 is mostly a lot optimization, but your idea for c ill test too. Thanks for the good feedback. I appreciate the help. People like you, is what makes tf2maps great!
     
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  13. Cytosolic

    Cytosolic L4: Comfortable Member

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    Thanks! :) I'm glad I was helpful. I'm a pretty new here and glad I'm on the right track. I really appreciate your support and complements. Don't forget to play test!

    ~Cyto
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2015
  14. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    New Update!
    cp_fern_a3!

    • This update has a completely new spawn, with special mechanics! The door for blue spawn is one of the big gates from mannhaten!
    • The 2nd Control point has been comepletely changed. So has the 3rd control point (Though the 3rd control point has to be worked on some more, before i am satisfied with the loadout)!
    • A path to C will open where a bridge will move into position and a big door will open, wich is a giant shorcut for blue!
    • Shit tons of boring optimizasion stuff that you don't want to hear about!
    • added some cool reskins of the capture points by icarus: http://tf2maps.net/resources/control-point-holograms.552/
    • some more stuff... Like, there is a lot of changes, go play it! GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK ;)
    So let me show you some screenshots, so you understand:


    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  15. Cytosolic

    Cytosolic L4: Comfortable Member

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    Wow, This is looking really good. the new B is looks good and A to B has improved a lot! on the other hand you still have a couple long really long sight lines between B and C, and in the long narrow hallways. Last looks very interesting, though I'm worried about how the water pit will play out. It might be better to make a death pit instead of the penalty zone looking place it is now. It's incredibly under powered and the only way out is a long, open, exposed ramp up. Also please knock out the back wall on C. I think you have a chance for a really pretty view.
    cp_fern_a3 ideas.png

    The small health health acts as some cover for Blu from being spammed out while they cap the point. The Full Ammo is to give engineers a place to set up. On the topic of Health, replace the full health pack near B with a large or small one. Instant access to full health Will make the cap point a very strong position, making it hard to attack or defend. Speaking of defending, C looks a little hard to defend for Red. I'd suggest opening it up a little more and maybe adding another ramp down to the point over the pit.

    Well, this is all I can see right now. The map in generally looks very promising and I like the new bridge. Keep up the good work and try to get into a play test.

    Edit: Just had an idea. Try moving Red spawn up and closer to the rest of the map, allowing red to get into the action quicker. This way they'll spend less time walking out of spawn and more time playing.
    ~Cyto
     
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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
  16. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    Yeah, C still needs alot of work. I kinda rushed it, since i wanted a3 to be finished. Ill make sure that a4 has a better flow generally. Though i still need to test the map with actual players somehow...
    I think red spawn is fine. I just need it to be more intuative for red to find B.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    I am working on adding the map to my server, so i can test it with actual players! Hopefully it will work!
     
  18. Cytosolic

    Cytosolic L4: Comfortable Member

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    If you need to get the map tested Tf2maps.net hosts game days on their server. Keep an eye on the Server Event Forums. The IP to the US server should be 70.42.74.31:27015. I forgot the Euro server IP, though you can find it on site. If you don't want to wait for routine game days you can hang around the tf2maps.net Steam Chat Room and get into an impromptu test (or as we call them Imps) although I've had no personal experience with how those are supposed to work. I think putting the map on rotation on you server would be a great idea! That way people could play or run around on you map when they wanted to instead of waiting around for a game day or Imp. If you do get it up please let me know, I'd love to test it out.

    Edit: For Red spawn I just meant that Red had a while to walk before getting anywhere. If you look at official A/D maps Red spawn is usually(figuratively speaking of course) right on top of the last point. If Red spawn is too far away it only makes it harder for Red to defend and easier for Blu to attack. Something you don't want on a Final point.
    ~Cyto
     
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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
  19. TheAppleJhon

    TheAppleJhon L2: Junior Member

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    I actually added it to my map and had fun playing with my fans... I am a youtuber so i have slavelike fans who joins just by the fact that i am on it xD
    They also gave me a lot of items, one of them being a 13-14 key unusual :3
    But yeah. It seems like b is confusing to find, so ill have to make it more intuative for players to find it. It also seems like red exploits the left path to camp. I havent seen spawn camping but i have seen them just go near the spawn instead of actually going to B, wich gave blue the chance to cap. So i have to close the path to the left when A is capped!
    The good thing is that everyone loved A. It works really well and is very balanced, so thats good!
     
  20. Cytosolic

    Cytosolic L4: Comfortable Member

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    I really like A and B. It seems like C and the to C are the only things that need reworking. Just an idea but you could rework or delete the Hall way in the middle of the map. You could cut the massive sight line and encourage players to go around B instead of just walking strait to A and trying to spawn camp.

    Anyway good work, I look forward to seeing how this turns out.

    ~Cyto