Feedback on map layout

[Alpaca]

I've been playing Team Fortress for a couple of months now, and pretty much exclusively the Payload gametype. I've decided to take a stab at designing a new map, based off a previous map I highly enjoyed.

The original map is "2tpl_Alpine" (Server IP: 208.53.160.147:2701), which features a slightly different version of payload, both teams are on attack, and the cart goes in both directions. It also has "Sudden Death".

So far, my map is based off of 2tpl_Alpine, however I wanted to make up for some of it's flaws, and make it slightly more balanced.


My map will be called "Power Station" and I'm using the Farm theme for this map, and the play areas boxed in using canyons.

First, here's a rough sketch of the map in Google Sketchup, I've added a bit of highlighting. Bear with me, I've have little skills in diagramming

The WIP area is where I'm stuck, I don't want to leave it wide open, however I don't want to have so many paths that it basically turns into a cluster**** in the center.

I've designed two "Stretches" to be used in the centre, I'm still not sure on which one I like better.

Option 1

Option one focus more on open area combat and sentry defense points. The upstairs area of the main building works the same as 2tpl_Alpine, only larger. Depending on which side of the map the bombcarts on, access to the upstairs is granted from opposite side of the map.

Option 2

Option two focus's on close combat, it's pretty much demoman and Pyro heaven. This time, the main building takes up more that 70% of the straightaway, however the second floor is always open, and a large whole appears in the middle granting access to the bombcart from above.

I'm also going to give the Scouts/Demoman/Soldiers a nice little bonus for Double Jumping/Grenade Jumping/Rocket Jumping on top of each of the building options.


So, any suggestions from the more experienced designers? Feel free to rip it apart

 

[Stormcaller3801]

I'm not a more experience designer, so please excuse my adding my two cents in, but...

Needs more wiggle.

I don't know if you've ever played Dreadnought, but the level is one long, straight run with opportunities for the defender to attack from the sides while the attacker rolls slowly down the center. It's very bland, very frustrating, and encourages the defender to spam Snipers to take advantage of the slow moving, distant targets that have little in the way of cover. Personally, I hate it- but my experience was on the attacker's side as a Medic. I don't think I could've been more of a target with a giant neon sign that said, "Shoot Me!"

Every other payload map I've played on wiggles. Left, right, up, down. The track twists and turns, which helps add variety. It also cuts down sight lanes, and also reduces the rendering costs since nobody has the potential to see the entire map at once. I much prefer those other maps to Dreadnought.

 

[Sgt Frag]

^what Storm said.

You need variations in all directions. Open spots, tight spots...

The part where you say demo/pyro heaven concerns me. All maps should have places for all classes. Maybe point A is good for pyros but point B would be good for snipers. Even better if all points have something for every class.

A wide open straight shot is great for snipers, and maybe for demos to jump. But pyros and heavies will hate it, spies will need things to hide behind to recharge, etc..

Pus it is visually more interesting to have twists turns and rises.

I haven't played the map you mentioned but Icarus made pl_waste and is a great example of a map with everything, plus it's the two way pl you describe.
Look at it for ideas maybe.

 

[Alpaca]

Thanks guys for your input, I'll keep your suggestions in mind.

Also, thanks frag for the pl_waste hint, Icarus also made a kit to help build these types of maps, which will really make this map a lot better.