Empty and Bland Rooms

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by FishyUberMuffin, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. FishyUberMuffin

    FishyUberMuffin War Paints Everywhere

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    How would i create this room to be less bland? Should i just add props?
     

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  2. FishyUberMuffin

    FishyUberMuffin War Paints Everywhere

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    Update,

    I just added water to the halls but it still looks bland
     
  3. Beef Bucket

    aa Beef Bucket L41: Blessed Member

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    What? Why would you just add water to an area? That shit is needlessly hard on performance and affects balance.
    Instead, think about what type of hallway this is. Is it spytech? Industrial? Desert? Spytech hallways are swishy, with blinking lights, swishy beams and wall computers. Industrial hallways are cold, with wires, pipes and 90' angles. Desert hallways are wooden with support beams etc. How can you implement the characteristics of these themes while still being easy to edit?

    Around here we call layering props over square geometry prop spam and we hate it almost as much as we hate unnecessary water
     
  4. FishyUberMuffin

    FishyUberMuffin War Paints Everywhere

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    I was going for a sewer like in 2fort but I will remove the water and do a spytech theme.
     
  5. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    If it's a sewer, then do it as a sewer. How is a sewer shaped? What props would you find there? Don't just make it spytech because someone said to.
     
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  6. FishyUberMuffin

    FishyUberMuffin War Paints Everywhere

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    I was going to use the Environmental library Prefab and use the sewer prefab but it was hard for me to line up everything also when I tryed to strech out the brush it would come off the sewer entrance. So I decided to make it the square that you see now. I already put the props within one of the hallways.
     
  7. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    If your map is in alpha (and I'm guessing it is by the dev textures) there's no need to worry about detailing. Focus on the gameplay for now and focus on the prettying-up later on.
     
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  8. FishyUberMuffin

    FishyUberMuffin War Paints Everywhere

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    That's why I created this thread. I need advice to make the hallways/room not so bland and empty feeling.
     
  9. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Displacements act a bit wierdly when stretched or skewed. If you want to make a tunnel using those prefabs longer, use seperate cylinders.
     
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  10. Lampenpam

    aa Lampenpam

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    well, as long you didnt start detailing, don't worry about design. You can't properly design anyway when the texture are still dev textures.
    If you want to start detailing then first switch out the dev textures to establish some base theme to work with. To add further details don't only add props to a square room, you can make details with the architecture as well. Add support beams, pilars, some shape in the ceiling, just something that doesnt make the room just square, be creative~. Props better come after that to fill out the room, and then it's lighting time to finish it up
     
  11. FishyUberMuffin

    FishyUberMuffin War Paints Everywhere

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    When i mean by Empty and Bland Rooms. I mean game play wise. I should have made that more clear. I need to make these hallways/room less bland and empty for balance. Spud Lord told me " The map is a giant maze with overscaled combat areas linked together by long, boring hallways" So i need to work on over scaled aspect but also the boring hallways.
     
  12. FishyUberMuffin

    FishyUberMuffin War Paints Everywhere

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    Sorry i got the wrong prefab name wrong. Its Displacement Library .
     
  13. henke37

    aa henke37

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    The trick to interesting spaces is to have interesting things in them. But not props. Think interesting geometry. A little ledge here, a turn there, a catwalk on the edge, a window on the wall, a big prop offering cover there...
     
  14. FishyUberMuffin

    FishyUberMuffin War Paints Everywhere

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    For the ledge should i put a ramp connecting to it or only have the jumping classes be able to use it? Same goes for the catwalk. Also the catwalk should be super high up almost touching the roof or only a bit higher then a normal bridge? Should i have the window in the wall be with glass or no glass that let players go threw the window?
     
  15. Da Spud Lord

    aa Da Spud Lord L0: Crappy Member

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    That's for you to decide how you want your map to play. Generally, restricting an area's access to only a couple classes is bad practice, although not always.
     
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  16. Da Spud Lord

    aa Da Spud Lord L0: Crappy Member

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    To get a bit more specific: Picking one option over the other(s) just because you like it or think it's cool isn't always the right answer. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but that's because this is important: Consider how it will impact gameplay. For the window example, let's consider what would happen if we had an open window:
    -It provides another route for players to move from the building to the outside area. If the window is close enough to the ground, players can move both ways.
    -If the window is small, it functions as a chokepoint. If there is another nearby opening that isn't too close to the window, it will reduce the chokeyness. If the other opening is wider than the window, players will likely prefer the wider opening over the window.
    -Requiring players to crouch through the window will make the window even more unfavorable as an attacking route as it essentially becomes a super choke. (Chokes like this aren't inherently a bad thing; they can be used well. For example, spies may use small windows as flanks since most other players will avoid it and they can move through undetected, removing the need to be able to dodge.)
    -If the window is wide and the room behind it is large enough to fit a few team members, it can be a good place to launch a push into the below area.
    -A wider window will also mean the area of the wall that can be used as cover is shorter, which can be a downside for players inside the building if the room isn't large enough.
    -An open window allows players to shoot out enemies below- especially useful for soldiers and demos who can use the window to easily spam out enemies and clear the area. Placing health or ammo nearby can reinforce this strategy, although you should consider if that's what you want or if it will make attacking too easy.
    -Snipers may be able to shoot into the building from outside, and counter enemies trying to shoot down on players or enemies trying to push through the window.
    -Demos on the outside of the building can spam grenades and stickies into the window to flush out enemies and camping engineers.
    -Making the window small enough will prevent players from moving through it, but they can still shoot through it. This will likely limit the player's FOV when aiming through the window, though.
    Even if the window is closed, players will still be able to see through it. Players in the building will be able to survey the area outside without fear of being attacked. More skilled players outside the building will be able to see enemies moving past the window, which may help them to keep track of enemy positions and/or predict attacks, especially if the area behind the window is a major route between areas.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  17. FishyUberMuffin

    FishyUberMuffin War Paints Everywhere

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    I don't mind doing things that I don't want within my map. I just do what other people tell me to do because that's how I work.
     
  18. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    You absolutely will never be any good at it working this way.
     
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  19. ★ Conga ★

    ★ Conga ★ L1: Registered

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    Your map is still in alpha, you have plenty of time to make hall ways shorter and combat zones more interesting by adding more cover, walls, health packs, height advantages/disadvantages, water, etc~

    It's during the beta and beyond stages when you should be scared about shortening a hallway or massively changing a combat zone~
    Don't do what others tell you to do, make the map you want to make, if it isn't that good it's okay, it just lets you review it and learn from your mistakes~
    Afterwards you can pick and choose your favorite parts/pieces which seemed to do quite well and learn those habits to carry them over to your next map~

    There are a lot of bad maps out there so don't be afraid thinking you'll be seen as a bad mapper, i'm willing to bet people like crash have had quite a few maps they wouldn't even think of showing publicly today they made during their early mapping years~

    Regardless most of the things people have said so far seems good~
    A sewer area is an excellent place to take advantage of corners to peak and health pack locations to learn.. pyros *love* sewers unless they're long and boring~ So i'd suggest placing multiple corners you could take from a single pipe instead of each pipe being its own long choke point which a sniper can lock down on both just by walking a little bit between both of them~

    You could have the sewer have a room in the middle or split into two pipes which then reconnect, blocking a direct sniper sight line to the other side, additionally there could be a way to go between the pipes at the cost of having a height disadvantage while doing so~
    If you really want to push it there could be a third route which gives you a serve height disadvantage at first but allows you to have an advantage when you reach the control point, punishing defending players for not looking out below and spending too much time spamming the sewer pipes~

    Imagine two snipers thinking they're top-notch when a back burner pyro appears from behind them because they were permanently scoped in on the sewers, I love it when this kind of stuff happens~
     
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  20. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    Off-topic but did your period and tilde keys get swapped without you noticing
     
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