Elevators and TF2

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by The Asylum, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    Back in the days of yore (2007), there were no elevators in TF2. Compared to TFC, 2Fort's elevator was replaced with a staircase, as were the elevators in Well. While still totally possible to create in hammer, elevators were nixed from TF2.

    Obviously that's changed with Hightower and Doomsday now. Keeping with Valve's gameplay philosophy for TF2, how would elevators affect it, if they weren't just part of the end objective? I've stayed away from making elevators for so long, I want to know what you guys think.
     
  2. EArkham

    aa EArkham Necromancer

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    To be fair, the elevator on doomsday is annoying as hell to be on due to the shuddering and collision problems. So I'm not sure the fact that they used one in doomsday means it's a good idea.

    Hightower's elevators seem to behave alright, as far as I can tell. Never had any problems on them myself.

    There's also the thundermountain elevator for the track on stage 1.

    I guess overall the lesson is that they're fine to use as long as it's sparingly.
     
  3. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    You'll notice those elevators are climactic points in the map, not ways to move around or anything. In fact, they are all but impossible to use to traverse between height levels and exist almost as battle arenas unto themselves. I think they work because they're unique, open elevators with no other purpose.

    They are very deterministic, and players can only control them on a primitive level. By contrast the elevators in Mach and Garbage Day are enclosed spaces that single out players and pop them into new areas without any warning to others. How important that is is debatable, but remember that TF2 is a game that takes footstep sounds into accounting for balance. Modern TF2 may be removed from the original design goals, but keeping them in mind isn't going to hurt.

    Also I hate elevators.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2012
  4. henke37

    aa henke37

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    Elevators are slow and don't deal with conflicting player interests well. They act as choke points and are generally difficult to reach from the ground level when they are in the air. They also give classes with aerial mobility an advantage. Elevators also tend to produce sound when they operator, something that is important to gameplay balance.

    To sum it up, an elevator is usually something to fight over, since it is useless for most other purposes.
     
  5. froggie

    froggie L1: Registered

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    Yeah, had my experience with elevators in tf2 and i must admit they are better left out. Unless you have a really, really great idea how to put them in just let it be. Same with ladders.... they belong to tfc - just like nadespamming.
     
  6. GPuzzle

    GPuzzle L9: Fashionable Member

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    Hightower elevator works well because of the enclosed space. You have two tall platforms, a lot of entrances, but most are from long range shooting, and a spire. With so many entrances, and a lot of places to shoot, the cart starts to do what MangyCarface tried to get on Frontier - use the cart as cover.
     
  7. Kill_the_Bug

    aa Kill_the_Bug

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    I have tried a number of different style of elevators and most of the time players fall through them
     
  8. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    Try trigger_push.

    Bungie talks about elevators and teleporters in game design several years back, and they decided they were terrible design features in multiplayer maps. That's why we ended up with man cannons. There's an element of risk to using them, they function predictably, and they don't disorient the user because they can see where they're going.

    Would have to come up with some type of prop for justifying them in TF2 though.. like an enormous fan or something.
     
  9. Jyyst

    Jyyst L1: Registered

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    A cannon? Would fit tf2 perfectly :D