Does hammer hate vertex editing or what?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by mmik, Jan 22, 2009.

  1. mmik

    mmik L2: Junior Member

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    Every time I open my map it seems my brushes are in a different shape than I had left them. As far as I know I'm not making them concave.

    Some of them are even going completely flat when I'm not looking.
     
  2. Pink_Panther

    Pink_Panther L3: Member

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    the vertex tool is pretty tricky.

    You also have to make sure that all the points defining a surface are form perfect plane. If its got a warp, the compiler cant do anything with it and makes it flat however it feels like it wants.

    If you want, I can throw together something with some tricks.
     
  3. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

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    There are two basic rules for what makes an invalid brush.

    1. It's concave.
    Another way of thinking it is that if you are able to draw a like through the brush that can cross it twice; it's invalid.

    2. A straight line of your brush can only have two vertices. If it has more it's invalid.

    Press alt+P in hammer to check for invalid brushes
     
  4. Earl

    Earl L6: Sharp Member

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    Also note that when hammer saves, it doesn't save the vertex data, it saves the plane data. Basically when it loads a map it just intersects all the planes it has stored in the file and the brush is what's left. If one of your faces is at an oblique angle, the lack of precision in the decimal numbers in the file that define your planes can mess up the exact positioning of the face, and consequently the vertices.

    If you're trying to make intricate shapes with brushes, look into making them as models. If what you're doing seems rather simple, then "ur doin' it rong".
     
  5. mmik

    mmik L2: Junior Member

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    I'm just doing it wrong. Every single time I move one vertex, even by one margin, I check alt+p and it has become invalid.

    And I can't get a single modeling program to work (for what I DO need to model).

    blender doesn't work in 64 bit vista, and I can't get the VTF plugin to work for 3dmax. (How hard can that be, seriously?)
     
  6. Pink_Panther

    Pink_Panther L3: Member

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    Have you tried other compatabliity modes? (right click on the program icon and click properties)

    As for how hard it can be to make a program for both 32 and 64 bit, it depends on how the program was constructed. Many programmers/companies take shortcuts or use speciallized commands that only work in a specific environment. For the most part, this just isnt a problem. But when OS's change in unexpected ways, there sometimes is just no way to fix it without completely redoing a project.

    In mapping terms, if valve decided to change the engine so that func_detail items only show if your within 500 units. Some maps would be easy to change, some would require no change at all, some would just become unplayable and would require a complete redesign.

    A nice example of this 32 to 64 bit problem is the infamous HL2 problem with 64bit mode...just doesnt work. If i am guessing right, tf2 just has a 32bit mode which is why it works without extra parameters added.
     
  7. What Is Schwa

    What Is Schwa L6: Sharp Member

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    This is your problem. If you're only moving one vertex than you are going to have an invalid face. Move 'em in pairs.
     
  8. mmik

    mmik L2: Junior Member

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    Yea I figured that out. I'm using the wedge brushes now, since it's basically impossible to mess up.
     
  9. Pink_Panther

    Pink_Panther L3: Member

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    Wedges are pretty handy, i have used them a lot in the past. Dont be afraid of playing with the vertex tool a lot trying out different shapes and things. I find that i use the vertex tool for almost every brush in a map. The big ones are mitering corners for the floor and ceilings in tunnels, making sloped floors, etc.

    Just as a bit of warning on wedges, if your using a lot of wedges to build a warped floor players sometimes get blocked when walking across a joining edge. Its pretty inconsistant from compile to compile to boot.