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displacements and model Q's

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Sgt Frag, May 25, 2008.

  1. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Been messing around with displacements. They are cool but seem somewhat touchy.

    The main issue I'm having is when I go in game a set of displacements that looks great in editor is all split up in game.

    I'm trying to do a cliff with over hang at the top. Trying to give it alot of shape so it's divided up into cubes so all edges match and all brushes have 4 sides. They are sewn and like I said look great in editor.

    I think my problem is I'm probably ending up with some concave brushes. Not sure how that works exactly in the editor. In a 3d program you could make a cube convex by moving a vert and turning an edge, but you can't see/turn the edges in Hammer so I'm wondering how to make displacements that are more complex than just an exact square.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I'm trying to make brushes shaped like this (side view)
    ----
    | /
    ---

    but angled from 2 sides. So from the front of that brush I would drag one vert in a bit. This seems to create 'invalid solids'

    The displace will be great in editor, messed up in game. If I adjust verts Hammer crashes and when I open up the auto save the displace look like they do in game.

    EDIT--

    OK, had an idea. the faces on the front of that brush were like this:

    ---
    |\|
    ---

    I flipped the brush around and now the faces are like this
    ---
    |/|
    ---

    That kept the face from being 'folded' inwards, now it's folded outwards so the brush shouldn't be concave anymore. It still is messed up in game though. :(
    ---------------
    I've also read some about 'deleteing' sides of a displacement. When I make one I make a cube and select the sides I want to displace. The other sides don't show in editor anymore. Is this the same thing?
    --------------
    Is there a way to displace the sides of a cliff horizontally, or do displacements only work vertically?
    =============================
    Objects

    I have yet figured out how to add model props to my level. I just can't find anything except the model viewer. And can't find a way to add them from it.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2008
  2. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    You can choose the displacement axis, just change it to X, Y or Z, if that's what you're asking

    To put a model, place a prop_static entity anywhere and go into options.

    For the displacements thing press SEW and see what happens (maybe)
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2008
  3. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    Yes, you're doing it the correct way. Some people just make the whole brush into a displacement.

    Do you have any errors in your compile log that are related to displacements? Stuff like bad make triangles?
     
  4. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    The problem isnt the displacements its the underlying brushwork. you've got to make absolutely sure that your brushes arent concave.
    If at all posible use the clipping tool over the vertex tool, the clipping tool makes it much harder to create invalid brushes. but there are always cases when you need the vertex tool in those cases you just have to be ultra carefull you don't push one of the points too far and make the brush concave.
    This shows concave bushes well - http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Concave
    You're basicly making some of those when you use the vertex tool.
    remember: this problem has nothing to do with displacements, if you can make your cliff out of valid brushes before you even think about making them displacements your life will be a while load easier.
     
  5. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Thanks, I did figure it out looking at valve wiki.
    Now I'm just making sure all faces are flat. I had changed the concave one into a convex but it didn't like that either for some reason.

    Anyway, knowing how to change the axis now will help alot. I was trying to get parts of the cliff to stick out some without having to resort to clipping displacements into each other. I want one smooth face. Making the brushes that shape was causing the probs.

    Thanks.
    ----------
    I'll have to check out the object thing now.

    EDIT--
    OK, not having luck with objects. I did manage to create a rail yard roof. Little thing for above a door but that's not what I wanted anyway.

    hit entity button, chose prop_static
    Right click 'create object'

    I get a cube that says prop_static.
    right click/properties
    'world model' (double click) and the model viewer comes up. It says 0/3600 mdl files.

    I can see objects that appear to be selected randomly and are all HL objects I believe. With the TF filter I get zip. Is there a tut on this somewhere?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2008
  6. Ace

    Ace L3: Member

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    Props....I can never get the filter to work, I get the same thing as you when i choose filter from the drop down box, instead just leave that blank, search for the prop type (ladder, barrier, mining) and then when it lists the items just check that it is a tf2 prop, all the tf2 props have tf written on the left side of the name(think its the left) while other games have hl written to the side.

    With regards to displacements my personnal method (may nor may not be the best) is if i want an overhang - unless it is massive - make the cliff flat from brushes and make the overhang with the displacement tool straight out of the flat (vertical) brushes.
    I only use brushes at right angle to each other when making displacements as it is easy to round off the edge to get the desired angle. This also makes the cutting of brushes alot easier.
     
  7. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    Yeah, since you can just change the axis, you may be able to use all rectangular blocks.

    For the models, just use the entity tool to the left to create a new prop_static (or one of the others, depending on what you want) and then select world model. The majority of the models that you'll see are HL2 models, and I've only ever had the filter for mods work once, so just ignore that. Make sure that you haven't selected a subfolder in the top left (it will limit what you search only to that, start using it once you're more certain about what you want) and then just search for things at the bottom, like 'fence' 'train' etc, and then use tf only models. As an fyi, you'll find lots of tf models in farm, 2fort, mining, and gameplay.
     
  8. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Cool, thanks alot. I reopened, selected my func_static, choose 'all' (instead of tf or hl)
    and typed in 2fort at the bottom. got a list of stuff to choose from :)
     
  9. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    you mean prop_static right?

    prop 101 -
    *prop_dynamic - for anything that changes (like changes skin when its captured or has an animation...)
    *prop_static - for anything that never moves or changes ever
    *prop_multiplayer_physics - for those orange cones that react when you shoot them
     
  10. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Uh yeah, that's what I meant :)
    ---
    been messing with sewer tunnels today, trying to figure the best way.

    Tried a 20 sided cylinder, 'make hollow'. That's a mess/ hard to tex and lots of overlap. Took along time to compile with 2 of those.

    Tried the displacement tube method in the tut by Icon. Pretty cool. Made some tunnels with corners and t junctions. But they have no physics for the player, I fall right thru. But sticky bombs would stick to em.

    Just used the arch tool. That's probably how they will end up in the end.

    Gotta go play now :)
     
  11. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    Try to avoid the make hollow tool if at all possible, as it usually sucks and you can do a better job. Same for the arch tool. Use vertex manipulation, and just use however many brushes you'll need for sides (6-8 maybe?) and then just line up the verticies and whatnot. Takes some getting used to, but VM is the way to go.