Disable Alltalk/give an option to disable Alltalk in the Servers?

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by Fluury, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. Fluury

    aa Fluury

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    TL: DR: Alltalk sucks, it prevents teams from being able to coordinate/make plans properly and also causes the VC to become cluttered when there are like more than 3 voice happy people on the entire server. Give hosts the ability to turn that off. Thanks.

    Not exactly related to the website but I wouldn't know any other place to have a proper talk about this.

    I feel like Alltalk is a detriment to the servers and map data, and the servers could benefit from having it disabled or at least giving hosts the option to disable it.

    Reasons for this:

    1. Alltalk prevents Voice Chat from being used to organize pushes and give your team information the enemy team shouldn't hear. I probably don't have to explain this point, as everyone will understand that loudly proclaiming your plans to the enemy team is... kind of a problem. Or warning your team about a spy behind you with the spy being able to hear it will probably heavily affect how the spy plays. There is also the fun situation where the enemy team is using VC for callouts/planning and now you want to use it for your team's planning/callouts. Do you just talk over them to prevent their communication? It's all pretty, pretty silly.

    "Just type it instead" - Takes too long, leaves your character vulnerable standing still. Not viable.

    "Just make a bind for it instead!" - There are a lot of things one might want to communicate, and I can't make a bind for all of these. Not only that, but a bind isn't flexible/a text message doesn't attract as much attention from your team as voice does.

    As you can imagine, this affects Gameplay pretty significantly, and as such affects the data gained from map tests in a negative way.

    2. Alltalk causes the Voice chat to become insanely cluttered when there are more than like 3-4 people active in it. A cluttered voice chat sucks because it's annoying to listen to, and causes the information gained from it to fall apart.
    If Alltalk wasn't a thing, you'd need to have 3-4 per 12 people being active for it to become cluttered vs. 3-4 per 24. This overall means you can have 6-8 voice happy people in a server without things falling apart, vs. the current 3-4. And more people being able to talk on the server is always a good thing, since an active voice chat adds a lot to the game.

    "If it's cluttered, just tell them to shut up!" - A bad solution. It sure feels pretty silly to not be able to talk in VC because the enemy team is currently using it for call-outs/planning. A solution that encourages people to shut up and not use VC is a bad solution in my book.

    A cluttered voice chat is probably even worse than point 1. because it actively worsens the mood for everyone on the server that has VC enabled.

    Common counter points tackled:

    "What about using VC to discuss map feedback?" - This is a completely fair point, and from my perspective the only reason you'd want to have Alltalk enabled. This is why I am suggesting to give hosts the option to turn it off/on, so you could have a round with it off, and then a round with it on to discuss feedback with.

    "The server has been running Alltalk for [timeframe] - why this talk now?" - Appeal to tradition is not an argument. Circumstances change, maybe because of the pandemic people are more talky talky in voice chat nowadays. I don't know. All I know is that this is a problem now, which needs a solution, which is why this isn't an argument.

    "Removing Alltalk would ruin the feel of community!" - Completely subjective but I simply kinda disagree. Getting rid of Alltalk would make it far more inviting for people to use VC (the 3-4 to 6-8 situation I have mentioned before) which in turn creates more voice happy people - and more voice happy people creates a far greater feeling of community.

    "There sometimes is like only 1 person on the server using VC!" - Point 1 still applies in it's fullest. That single person won't be able to announce to their team that they will sap that sentry and then call for a push when sapped since the enemy engineer will be able to perfectly hear the plan.

    "But I want to talk to the enemy team/make jokes/talk to my friend/say "SHEEEEEEEEEEEE" really loudly!" -
    Will come down to your mindset but that is something that the Discord chat is for imo. Using the VC for, yknow, actually playing the game will always be more important than casual chitchat.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Overall, I personally believe simply giving Hosts the option to disable/enable Alltalk on will is the best of both worlds, and can see no reason why you *wouldnt* offer the mere option.

    It would also give map creators the unique ability to get both feedback for Alltalk servers playing the map (and thus losing access to certain strategies) vs. non Alltalk Servers.
    A sentry spot might be able to be dealt with if the enemy team can coordinate very well through VC, but impossible to break through if they lose that ability. That is very interesting information that can be great food for thought.

    Leave your thoughts below.
     
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  2. nesman

    Server Staff nesman oh god how did this get here

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    There is a feedback plugin in the works. This adds what is called a feedback round to the end of a map which is just free time for everyone to run around and leave feedback. Ideally in this situation if people wanted alltalk turned off during gameplay it could be enabled during that feedback round.
     
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  3. toopliss

    aa toopliss deer

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    Having the voice chat being cluttered is a moderation problem, the host has a responsibility to make sure that people don't talk over each other. If you have more than 3 people talking at once that's already an issue, and that issue is from the nature of vc and player etiquette, alltalk maybe makes it worse, but at the end it is a moderation issue.

    I feel like it would be harder to moderate with alltalk off because a host can't be listening to both teams at once to catch for problematic behaviour and there is an off chance that there isn't any server mods or staff on the server on the opposite team of the host to catch it. Sure, server players might call on it but it's harder to verify with vc very much being an at the moment thing.
     
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  4. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

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    I have (hopefully) added an alltalk toggle to the /admin menu, which VIP+ can use. Hosts are free to try it out. As toopliss mentioned, moderation is a concern - I think it's fine if hosts know the added responsibility that comes with disabling alltalk.

    I am unsure if demos recorded without alltalk will record team voice chat. If that turns out to be an issue, I'm turning alltalk back on until we can find a workaround.
     
  5. Fluury

    aa Fluury

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    I don't think it's a moderation issue depending on the context.

    I don't feel comfortable muting people because they accidentally talk over each other over and over again - people talking over each other is something that happens by accident most of the time from my experience.
    Saying "Please don't talk over each other" does not solve this issue because most of the time, people don't do it by will. There are a *lot* of variables to this similar to a real life conversation which makes moderating that situation pretty complicated and hard to deal with without wronging someone.

    Your other concern is fair, but I'd argue that's a rather niche case and the problems Alltalk introduces are greater than being able to cover that relatively niche case more effectively and reliably.

    Thank you! I will be sure to try it out.
     
  6. toopliss

    aa toopliss deer

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    This is a moderation issue, if someone talked over someone else the first time, it's an accident, you tell them to not do it again and most people do move on and try not do it again. It might happen as an accident but you could usually tell if it was if someone starts talking and the other person shuts up soon enough. There are also constant tips in chat now telling people to not talk over each other.

    There are people that are just going to forget about it or ignore you, for the latter type, the host muting them is just a given. The host warned them, they didn't try to follow up and change, further action was needed and justified. Then there are the first type of people, if they just, can't stop talking still it's just, gonna have to be the case that hosts should be muting them, unfortunately imo. They still, at the end of the day, didn't follow instructions. If they get mad about the host trying to build better player etiquette, they can find other servers where the server rules are more lax.

    I think it is a reminder that server mutes and gags don't persists across map change, so muting people isn't really that big of a punishment.