Difference between Skip and Nodraw

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Dragonic, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. Dragonic

    Dragonic L1: Registered

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    From what I understand of the Skip and Nodraw textures (which is not much), both can be used to make brush faces invisible to players.
    So what are the differences and usages of these two textures?
     
  2. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    nodraw blocks vvis, can be used to seal the map and has physics, skip is a faux texture that does what it says on the tin, it gets skipped by the compiler.
     
  3. Dragonic

    Dragonic L1: Registered

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    So what you're saying is that nodraw can be used to create an invisible, solid wall but skip by itself cannot?
     
  4. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    nodraw surfaces arent drawn, skip surfaces are skipped :p
     
  5. EArkham

    aa EArkham Necromancer

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  6. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Yes. Though i should add that nodraw also blocks light radiosity and thus casts shadows. IIRC it also has 0 reflectivity. I should also add that because it blocks vvis you'll be able to see sections of the world get culled from behind it so it doesn't make a very effective wall.

    If you want an actual invisible wall, use playerclip, or an invisible func_brush so that it blocks bullets or a func_detail blockbullet brush (its physics collisions also block players).
     
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012
  7. Vincent

    aa Vincent 🔨 Grandmaster Lizard Wizard Jedi 🔨

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    To add on to grazr, I use a normal brush with the block bullets texture if I ever need to block projectiles. I dont know the pros and cons vs using an invisible func brush but both ways work.

    EDIT: Wait a func detail block bullets brush? Doesnt that block light?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012
  8. Dragonic

    Dragonic L1: Registered

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    What do you mean by a func_detail blockbullet brush?
    I thought func_detail was only used to omit a brush from being calculated by vvis? This would create an object that would be visible yet penetrable by bullet and players, right?

    Thanks EArkham for the VDC links. I read through them but sometimes they aren't that clear nor helpful.

    @Vincent: Silly question, what's a normal brush?
     
  9. Vincent

    aa Vincent 🔨 Grandmaster Lizard Wizard Jedi 🔨

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    No. A func detailed brush with the block bullets texture would block all weapon fire and players. Also it would be invisible.

    When I refer to a normal brush I simply mean a brush created with the brush tool. The brush tool is the blank white cube on the left in the toolbar.
     
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  10. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    A func_detail textured in blockbullets shouldn't cast shadows.
     
  11. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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  12. Dragonic

    Dragonic L1: Registered

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    While reading this, I came across Area Portals (or func_areaportal). Other than windowless doors, what else can it be used for? Water?

    func_areaportalwindow is interesting as well...
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012
  13. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    blockbullets cuts vvis, this is why you should func_detail it. Check out badlands spire for an example. They've forgone a physics mesh for the spire prop for manually building a blockbullets brush structure for it. Not sure on the benefits for this personally, perhaps it was overtly difficult to create a physics mesh shaped like that.

    areaportal windows don't get used in TF2 and for a number of subtle reasons. There's plenty of information on that on the web, no need to reiterate it here.
     
  14. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    isnt there an apw in pipeline?
     
  15. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I mean in a general sense, you could probably find a unique situation to utilise one so long as the "closed" sate of the portal doesn't stick out like a saw thumb (which they usually do because of TF2's art style and how levels are designed around its game mechanics to be small and simple).
     
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  16. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    I don't know about Pipeline, but there's definitely one in Thunder Mountain. I think in the third stage.
     
  17. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    What? There are plenty of apw all over TF2. They don't decompile nicely afaik, but I've seen them. Wish I could remember where, but I have seen them. I want to say Foundry has a couple for some reason.

    I guess the reason grazr is putting forth is that you want to see people behind windows (that is usually why we put windows in our maps) but they are used in places that aren't windows a little.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2012
  18. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    TF2 maps:

    2Fort
    DoubleCross
    Sawmill
    Turbine
    Well
    5gorge
    Gorge
    Badlands
    Coldfront
    Fastlane
    Freight1
    Foundry
    Gullywash
    Granary
    Yukon
    Degroot Keep
    Dustbowl
    Egypt
    Gravel Pit
    Junction
    Mann manor
    Mountain Lab
    Steel
    Hydro
    Badwater Basin
    Barnblitz
    Goldrush
    Hoodoo
    Thunder Mountain
    Upward
    Frontier
    Pipeline
    Hightower
    Nightfall
    Lumberyard
    Nucleus
    Offblast
    Ravine
    Watchtower
    Harvest
    Viaduct
    Lakeside
    Eyeaduct

    TF2maps that might have APW's:

    Thunder Mountain
    Pipeline

    Regardless of that my point stands, a well optimised TF2 map has little use for APW's and they should be a last resort in minimum/insignificant gameplay areas.

    APW's are used to close off parts of the map such as buildings with a ton of windows and huge amounts of high poly objects in it. You can use them in TF2 but they look like arse, often interefere with gameplay and aren't always necassery. If there are alternatives, use them. They are not advised for multiplayer maps.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012