Designing a middle CP

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Ninjilla, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. Ninjilla

    Ninjilla L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    445
    Positive Ratings:
    59
    So I am interested in making a 5CP map, but I am getting mindblocked hard. I was wondering what tips there are for designing a mid CP that has push-type gameplay in mind, everything I am drawing out either works for KOTH or borrows too heavily from other maps for my tastes. I guess what I am asking for is, when designing for a 5CP mid point, what general stuff should I be keeping in mind in regards to attack/defense of mid, and pushing onto 2nd/4th?
     
  2. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,182
    -2.5 routes (2 main, 1 side)
    -Large, visible, and raised capture area
    -Long capture times
    -Lots of health + ammo (no fulls)
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Ninjilla

    Ninjilla L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    445
    Positive Ratings:
    59
    Ah thanks Icarus, any other general layout tips? I sadly dont get to play TF2 all too much, so me going through a lot of 5 CP games isnt so easy for me. :(
     
  4. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,182
    Avoid making yet another bridge as a mid point :p
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  5. HeaH

    HeaH L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    553
    Positive Ratings:
    102
    Have some kind of height differences. Flat maps = boring
     
  6. Boylee

    aa Boylee pew pew pew

    Messages:
    1,068
    Positive Ratings:
    696
    You know you're a pro mapper when you have bullet lists for CP requirements.
    You know, I'd actually love to see checkpoint lists of recommendations like this for a variety of map types, just to compare and contrast.
     
  7. Ninjilla

    Ninjilla L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    445
    Positive Ratings:
    59
    I thought about making a topic like that, it would be interesting to see which modes share certain layout elements and differences with just general points.
     
  8. HeaH

    HeaH L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    553
    Positive Ratings:
    102
    The 2.5 rule is great for any map
     
  9. Passerby

    Passerby L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    99
    Positive Ratings:
    15
    a lot of what icuras said your going to want to raised up so that spam just roll's off, 2 main routes for each team to approach it than some smaller side routes.

    have a good amount of cover so snipers cant drop people of the route 1 by 1 should make is so that the people really need to push right onto the point to get the opposing team off it you dont want it easy for the point to just get spammed or sniped
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Waster

    Waster L1: Registered

    Messages:
    20
    Positive Ratings:
    13
    That 2.5 rule is new for me, but its really true when looking at badlands, granary and well. But Yukon fails horribly, because it only has one main route and the capture point is in the middle of a pit. Though, on the valve maps there are only 2 medium ammopacks and 2 medium healthpacks and 2 small healthpacks. So i dont think the lots of health/ammo is true.
     
  11. Ninjilla

    Ninjilla L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    445
    Positive Ratings:
    59
    True, but the bullets list would be interesting. Like, points with general rules that would show differences in making a mid point for 5CP vs a point for KOTH. Stuff like that.

    I like bullet lists. A lot.
     
  12. HeaH

    HeaH L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    553
    Positive Ratings:
    102
    I don't know, I can match the bullets very well to Yukon. The cap point might not be raised, but it's big and visible, has a long capture time, a good amount of health and ammo and it have the 2,5 routes
     
  13. Jimmy

    Jimmy L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    421
    Positive Ratings:
    223
    The cap doesn't neccesarily need to be raised, Coldfronts cap is only slightly raised. As long at the area around the cap makes combat flow towards the point and allow flanking to either be easy with little reward or harder with greater reward. Yukon is a good example. Its lack of multiple routes isn't a bad thing, as the bridge in mid allows you to get cover, health, flank AND cover the point to an extent. The fact that the cap is in the ditch is that the slope of the land draws players down towards the cap, and the fact thats its in the smack bang middle of the way to the next cp anyway.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  14. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,182
    Even if it's slightly raised, it lets spam just roll off it. Yukon's mid isn't so great, because trying to cap is suicide, since the ditch funnels all the spam from all sides onto it.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. Grim Tuesday

    aa Grim Tuesday

    Messages:
    1,257
    Positive Ratings:
    376
    Wasnt he talking about moving the cap to the bridge, or was it there before?

    Then it would fit all the rules that Icarus outlined before.
     
  16. Icarus

    aa Icarus

    Messages:
    2,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,182
    They're not rules, rather just guidelines :|

    But yeah, Mangy was kind of torn between putting it on the bridge or in the ditch before going official. Neither of which I was particularly fond of.
     
  17. Grim Tuesday

    aa Grim Tuesday

    Messages:
    1,257
    Positive Ratings:
    376
    If one were following your guidelines, where would you have the point in Yuokon?
     
  18. Ninjilla

    Ninjilla L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    445
    Positive Ratings:
    59
    I would assume if you used the guidelines, Yukon's middle CP would need a re-design as the bridge's small area would attract spam. But even then, Its more suggestions for a nice, playable point, not a definite rule.
     
  19. h3r1n6

    h3r1n6 L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    158
    Positive Ratings:
    95
    Longest mid-fight I played was on yukon, it just got boring and it repeats every round. Each team on one side, can't really push the enemy team anywhere but over the point, but the low ground position is so bad, that capping is hardly feasible in most situations.

    Coldfront for example is much better.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  20. Waster

    Waster L1: Registered

    Messages:
    20
    Positive Ratings:
    13
    The thing you can learn from yukon is how not to design a middle cp.