Deceit

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Ezekel, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    Deceit event
    The truth is obscured!


    wow, it's been a whole 14months since this last got updated (26th aug '10) XD

    It would seem that once again the fortress builders have gotten away with building two hostile bases right next door to each other, and neither side has cottoned on to this deceptive money (and gravel) making scheme!

    Hidden away behind seemingly innocent buildings, 2 secret bases work tirelessly to uncover alternative power sources in the increasingly desperate times as gravel supplies run out.
    Top of the list is a deathray powered only by sandviches. However, it seems the other faction have had similar ideas, and now the bases do little more than fight to try and get a peek at the other team's plans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  2. HeaH

    HeaH L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    New thread?
     
  3. Tekku

    aa Tekku

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    Awesome, a pink stain in 3rd screenshot :D
     
  4. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

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    If you have done these changes since the contest, you need only to simply disregard them :)

    Here's what I noticed from the playtesting during the contest:
    -I felt the mid was really big and often had little action around it. I would suggest shrinking it, or narrowing it to reduce unused space.
    -The spawn is very close to the flag, it was easy for a team to lock down their spawn with a few sentries and bar access to the flag room. Additionally, the map was too big for heavies or medics and demos to make their way and uber in the sentry room, they would be hassled by scouts around mid or just on the journey to the other spawn, often forcing the medic to uber.
    - The overhang in the flag room makes an overpowered sentry spot that is very difficult to remove, if you get an uber there. I say this because the lower entrance is the only one with a sightline to the underside, and that is the one that runs closest to the spawn. The upper entrance is a little more accessible, but in order to attack the sentries you would have to be right above them (to attack without getting shot), which is hard to get to if there are other players patrolling.

    The map felt a bit big, and it sprawled itself out a little too much for my liking.
     
  5. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    this is beta5 version. the contest one was beta1.
    i think most, if not all of those points have been addressed by various changes.

    gonna see if i can get it into a playtest session some time soon though, so we'll see how it plays there :)
     
  6. Godslayer57

    Godslayer57 L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Played it today and there ais really one thing I noticed:
    - The map is really confusing when running around it for your first, second and third time, Add more signs or cut off some routes.

    Other than that the map looks nice and the detailing is also very good.
     
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  7. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    thanks for the feedback.
    i'll look into it. though the layout is actually fairly simple (the map is broken down into 3 basic areas. middle, base front and base back with 3 connection points between each)
    i'm not too keen on cutting down on routes but i could work at making other changes, like making spawners face towards map centre, and changing spawn exits some.

    shame no one else posted any feedback :(
     
  8. Mr. P. Kiwi

    Mr. P. Kiwi L5: Dapper Member

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    A thing that is good about TF2 is its cartoon style. You can put ridicules big signs pointing the way. Also, It's a really nice map, fun to play, and well detailed.
    Keep up the good work.
     
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  9. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Sorry for the delay. Also the lack of pictures, but I couldn't find many important specific concerns, mostly generalized things.

    Decent areaportal use. Some more props could do with fades, though, particularly in the internal base area where you have a long distance without hard render blocking but there is visual obstruction.
    [01] [02] These portals should probably be offset so they don't merge.

    Most of your stairs are really steep. I can see some places where normal ones wouldn't fit, but otherwise they should really be the standard angle. It took me a while to figure out what was "off" about the map, and then I realized... there is zero fog. You should always have fog, even if it is really light.
    The overall texture use feels a little disjointed, too many different construction materials in one area/view.
    The spires in the skybox are neat, but make it feel a little confined since they are so tall and on all sides.
    [00] The grate on here is a little ugly and doesn't really match since the others have no grating.
     
  10. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    thanks overall. and i'll let you off the long time peroid cos you posted that on my birthday XD

    wish i'd noticed it earlier. i just made a new version today, to shift the spawn room a lil + break up the centre a lil. - i'll have to remember to add the things you've mentioned here in the next version i do.

    as for the areaportals merging - how do you access that view so i can see that kind of thing for myself?
     
  11. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Theme: Loads of rockets and laser guns in the 3dskybox. It kinda confuses (or at least it did me at first) as to the objective. CTF.

    Health: Tons of it. This was especially annoying when fighting scouts. You think you almost killed one and suddenly he comes around the corner with 50% more health. Or at least there are loads of tiny healths, often opposite each other. In CTF this shouldn't be entirely neccassery.

    Layout: The layout was fun as you can weave between routes but entering the base is a daunting thing as there are so many catwalks above all the entrances. This means that most kills are ambushes at point blank and don't favour attackers.

    spawn and intel room placement is adequite.

    Not sure what else to say, plenty of routes into the base, battlements is significantly more worth while attacking than anywhere else and sewer route goes largely unnoticed.

    Not much else i can say being mostly a 1 vs 1 - 2 vs 2.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2010
  12. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    r_drawportals
     
  13. Confidence Man

    Confidence Man L1: Registered

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    Am I wrong or are the mountains all made from the badlands spiral? Looks sort of weird.
     
  14. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    you're not wrong. you're the 1st to say they think it looks weird though.
    i'd guess it's because you're not used to seeing that model from this angle or being used in this way.


    thanks ABS

    so the best way to counter this is to make areaportals that are 1/2 the thickness of the doorway and have one on the inside half and one on the outside?
    or do they have to be further apart so that there isn't a straight line that can pass through their edges?
    would it be better to simply move the areaportal on the middle door to the 2nd doorway of that room? or will it still connect the areaportals together through the doorway left behind? i'm gussing not, as source isn't a fan of concave brush shapes, but sometimes i'm left quite surprised by how source can behave

    oh also, in the 2nd areaportal image you posted,
    that battlement is actually a world brush, and even has a block light brush nested inside it, yet i still get light leaking underneath it on the top left side. nothing i do seems to fix it, be it changing the lightmap size on the textures, or clipping the wall up into being different brushes above and below the battlement/platform. i'm really confused about this, and though i know most people probably won't notice it, it's still something that's bugging me.
    do you have any ideas what's going on?
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
  15. Confidence Man

    Confidence Man L1: Registered

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    Well, it just looks like what it is - normal sized model scaled way up. Looks especially strange where you have proper skybox rock models resting on top of them.

    Have you tried making your own cliffs? It would look much better, IMO.
     
  16. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    That would work. APs merge if both faces are on matching planes. Offset one of them even one unit and it will be fine.

    Not sure about the light. Have you tried nodrawing the wall area covered by the balcony when you split the wall?
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2010
  17. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    i'm not sure. i think i have. i'll have to check that out though to be sure.


    ok so it's planes that matter.
    that simplifies things.
    both faces you say? so they don't merge if one areaportal is 16units thick and the other is 8, but both of them have a plane along x=0?

    also... is it just a quirk of the engine that AP's get merged, or an intentional effect?
     
  18. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Correct, and it is intentional.
     
  19. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    alright i think i've got everything corrected now.

    odd thing with the area portals - i made one of them 8 units thick on both bases (triple checked this). in game it was still merging the areaportals in the blue base. so i then made the other portal 8 units, and offset it to the other end of the doorframe/wall and that fixed it. - seems odd that it did that though for one and not the other :p
     
  20. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    bumping to coincide with the night of the living release

    i'll update the DL link and pics later today to be that version