Cyclic Control Points

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Lancey, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    Here's a cool idea for TF2 that I stumbled upon. You can read about it on the VDC (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Cyclic_Capture_Points) or you can read a pretty picture instead.

    [​IMG]

    The game plays in a very straightforward manner. If you can't read the above image, both teams start with one point opposite the other's. They then must rush their way through each point in a clockwise (or counter clockwise) order. If one team captures every point, or their opponent has no control points left, they win the round.

    Teams each need to capture the points in the direction they are going. They can go backwards to defend points, but can't capture them unless they own the point before it. In my picture, RED can capture B, and BLU can capture D. Defense is just as important as offense, however. If BLU were to capture D and then point C before RED can capture and move to B, they win.

    Each point has a spawn room. Teams spawn from the point they last captured, allowing their opponents a chance at capturing other points. Layout needs to be neutral on all points, because there is no guarantee if a team will capture or hold a point of their color.

    Pros:
    • Gameplay is quick and points are exchanged often.
    • No restrictions on size. Maps can be very large or very small.
    • Midway between symmetric and assault.

    Cons:
    • Difficult balancing
    • Longer rounds
     
  2. Zwiffle

    Zwiffle L6: Sharp Member

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    That might actually make a cool game mode. I know there was something similar with payload where you both went around a track and tried to ram into the enemy's cart from behind, this looks a lot like the CP equivalent. Might be fun to map for, and could potentially even allow for random start-location pairings, somewhat like TC.

    EDIT: Could also be kind of simple, you walk out of spawn, go right for defense or go left for offense (depending on how its set up.) The more I think about it the better it seems from a theoretical standpoint.
     
  3. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    I thought about random start points, but realized that it would be unbalanced if RED were to start right before BLU's first point.
     
  4. Zwiffle

    Zwiffle L6: Sharp Member

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    Well the idea I was thinking is that all points start out neutral, then there are two start-location pairs, A + C or B + D, RED gets one of those at random, and then BLU would spawn at the associated partner of the spawn pair (if RED gets A, BLU gets C, or if RED gets C, BLU gets A) and the start point would be given to them at spawn.
     
  5. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    There's a map called Circle Jerk. Which basically explains the game in a nutshell.

    Think it's hard to get a team to attack or defend? Or both? Try doing it when you have to keep moving in a circle.

    You end up with alot of never seeing the enemy. Engies having a hard time setting up, etc...

    It's like plr without the fun.

    OK, maybe that's harsh, but the game mode isn't that great.
     
  6. Tapp

    Tapp L10: Glamorous Member

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    I saw this game mode a while ago, and attempted it with great failure. In addition to sgt frag's notes, it is also a pretty large map (nearing territory control). Any serious attempts should take note: Players will not defend, and a scout rush is almost always effective. I found this to be one of the main problems in the payload chase version of this, and as such shrunk the whole track down to force conflict. So that would be your biggest issue - encouraging combat. While frequently mappers try to push players towards the objectives, you will be drawing them together. This shouldn't be too hard, though. Try putting in slow capture times, accessibility for defenders, and a lot of strategic advantages for defenders (access to high places, prime sentry spots, etc).
     
  7. Zwiffle

    Zwiffle L6: Sharp Member

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    Actually this kind of gave me an idea for a mini-TC sort of map.
    A map with 4 CPs, each start location randomized, and barriers set up between each point can give you 6 different "maps" -
    Any adjacent point will have a barrier set up between since both teams will start at those points, and then each team pushes to take the enemy team's cap point - like a normal CP map. There are about 4 different possibilities this way, and if the map is asymmetrical (like I imagine it would be) this simple set up would allow for a lot of dynamic matches I would think, but would require a whole hell of a lot of planning to pull off.

    The last two come from opposite start locations - a diamond-shaped battlefield where both adjacent points are open for capture, and once one team gets both then the final point is open.

    A ton of work to be sure, and almost certainly to come out non-balanced in some situations, but hell why not?
     
  8. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    I've been making some sketches with a few features that should encourage combat. For one, most of the secondary routes converge or connect to other areas. In most situations, this is a simple altitude situation of placing balconies and catwalks along other routes. Also, to give defenders an advantage, all control points are open and lack cover facing the next point. That, accompanied with push gameplay for the attackers means that despite allowing the defenders to have the upper hand, the offensive team can get reinforcements quickly. To top it all off, a 30 second setup round allows engineers to set up sentry nests on their starting point.
     
  9. Tapp

    Tapp L10: Glamorous Member

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    Sounds perfect, that should work out fine. Although 60 seconds probably wouldn't hurt. Would you want my attempt at this? It's pretty old and from my earlier days, and I'm not even sure how it looks (It's been a while) but you could find a use for it.
     
  10. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    Sure.
     
  11. h3r1n6

    h3r1n6 L4: Comfortable Member

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    On the valve developer wiki there is a link to ccp_mechanics, which shows how the gamemode works in the editor, but the link is dead. I'd like to attempt a map like this. Does someone have the example map/another map to learn from?

    Edit:
    Would it be possible to tie holding 3 of the control points to the KotH timer? So if a team takes all control points, they win. But to stop stalemates, or infinite rounds, there is the KotH timer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009