ctf_trenchfare

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by oliethefolie, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    Hi, oliethefolie here with my first map, CTF_Trenchfare.

    At the moment Capture the Flag is very negelected gamemode in Team Fortress 2, with only two properly decent maps, Sawmill and Turbine. The reason that 2Fort and so many other Capture the Flag maps fail is because they have so few routes to the intel and because of symmetrical Sniper Decks the Snipers end up having massive Sniper Wars (How many times did I use Sniper in that sentence? Sniper!).

    Trenchfare has several routes to and from the intelligence which can be used in countless combinations. It is easier to attack than defend in Trenchfare meaning the match stays flowing and less stalematey. As said previously, defense is no easy task so you can either attack before the other team does or concentrate most of your efforts into a defense which will eventually be penetrated by the attacking team. Owning the central area and sole Sniper deck above it can be key to succesful capture as it can lead to easy recovery for the intel runner.

    As I previously said this is my first map so constructive criticism will be greatly appreciated. Oh and before you scream "Massive Sniper Lines!" when you take a look at the map (as I know you will :p) because if you go round with the Sniper Rifle and zoom in places you won't find (m)any massive sightlines.

    Please point out any issues you may find.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2010
  2. RaVaGe

    aa RaVaGe

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    You have an huge sightline on all the map.

    I advise you to reconsider your layout
     
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  3. Omnomnick

    Omnomnick L6: Sharp Member

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    ^What he said. But apart from reconsidering your layout, just update the existing one.

    Add buildings, props and walls/signs to break up those huge sight lines. Leave a few in to prevent snipers being made useless but the majority of them need breaking up. Large buildings are the easiest way to do that as they use walls to separate sections of the map and also add tighter spaces for smaller areas to be fought over by short range classes such as Scout and Pyro.
     
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  4. red_flame586

    red_flame586 L7: Fancy Member

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    as above, to many long sightlines. Also, I think you went a bit overboard with the displacements, and you need to sew a few into place, there's some gaps in there I can see.
     
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  5. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to add some large walls buildings and some more props. And maybe destroy some unnessecary displacements.
     
  6. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    Just updated to a2, thanks for the input, guys.
     
  7. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    A5 is almost done, I will probably post it later today.
     
  8. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    a5 has just been completed, comments would be appreciated.
     
  9. Cheese

    Cheese L1: Registered

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    Well, I like how you made the intel outdoors. I was going to use that idea some time myself.

    But you should really make the spawnrooms less confusing. And you can open the enemy spawnroomdoors. Fix that too.

    Oh yeah remember my map? Yeah I made a video. You should check it out if you're interested.
     
  10. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    a6 has been completed, all I really need to do now is optimisation and making it look nicer.
     
  11. Fredrik

    Fredrik L6: Sharp Member

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    The map is very flat, open and has huge sight lines.
    And fix those stretched textures.
     
  12. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    Which version did you use.
    a6 fixes a massive sightline throught the use of one prop each side whereas a5 still has it.
    And what's wrong with being flat? I probably going to add some more displacemnts in the "making prettier stages"
    EDIT: And I think the stretched textures are fixed in a6
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  13. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    Im working on a7 at the moment which has optimisation.
     
  14. Tyker

    Tyker L5: Dapper Member

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    The sighlines are too big. The areas are too wide. The entire map is boring and flat. The walls surrounding it are simply huge.

    The size of the map, lengthwise, is okay, but hallways like you see in the picture are just boring and flat. There is nothing to hide behind, nothing to do. It's just run and shoot. Try and make some hills, put down some props or brushes to spice things up.
     
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  15. Mr.Late

    Mr.Late L7: Fancy Member

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    Yeah, the biggest problems are the sightlines. They are caused by flat surfaces and overscaled areas. By adding buildings and modifying the layout overall you can make the map feel less flat and boxy.

    Intel in a water doesn't just feel right. I though RED and BLU would put the intel to better place than that!

    And I guess you are going to edit the outer areas? I don't feel like fighting in a crater.

    So, with some editing you can make this more playable. Then you can make it even better! Good luck :p
     
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  16. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Its vast. all the cielings and walls are too high. it feels only slightly too short, perhaps complicating the upper route would give us a chance to catch intel-stealers.

    And camping the intel with sticky-bombs is very easy, since you cant see them under the water. though otherwise the intel room is nice.

    And playerclip your staircases. I felt like i was in one of those industrial paint-mixing machines.
     
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  17. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    Thanks! What I took from your comments were:
    1) make walls shorter (already done in a7 WIP, :))
    2) Remove water/replace to be see-through (if I can)
    3) PLayerclip stairs

    Again, thanks.
    You think I should
    1) Add stuff to hid behind
    2) Make stuff look cool

    Thanks once more:
    1) Add more buildings to use as cover and break up sightlines
    2) Again remove water
    3) I don't get what you meant by that last comment, do you mean spice up the outer walls of the map. If so that's what I'm doing, most of that stuff was just a placeholder.

    Thank you guys for the great and useful input that I will add to a7.
    However map production is going to have to slow as I'm going back to school :'(
     
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  18. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    Sorry for the giant delay, but yeah... stuff happens.

    Anyways, played this during previous gameday, and I think the major problem is the scale. The map isn't necessarily too big in length (i.e.: distance from one base to the other), but all the rooms feel built for giants. There's no cover, and there are huge sightlines. In TF2, if you have a room bigger than 1024, you should make sure it has plenty of cover and structures to break sightlines.

    Additionally, careful where you put water, what kind of water, and how deep. As it is right now, water makes it very easy to conceal demo stickies right under the intel.

    Lastly, don't feel too let down about all the criticism, it's normal in a first map. Virtually all of us had scale problems on our first map.

    Goodluck.
     
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  19. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Course, I had to be contrary. my first room was too small to spawn in.

    Try adding some buildings at the top of each ramp, and along the sides of the map. that would give defenders a chance for a stealth sentry, and attackers somewhere to sneak behind the snipers. (also, it'll be a godsend during optimisation)

    One of the disadvantages of a single sniper deck like you have is that snipers have to be aware of all directions. as it is now though, they can keep an eye on an entire half of the map, and see flankers a mile off.

    and finally, the room in the first picture is largely unnecessary. move the spawnroom forward, and fill that room with something.
     
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  20. oliethefolie

    oliethefolie L1: Registered

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    Thanks for the feedback, I'll try to make people feel less like wanting to go back in a time machine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010