CTF_Teufort- Reimagining the Game's Worst Map

Discussion in 'Contests' started by Aqwertybqwerty, Apr 21, 2012.

  1. Aqwertybqwerty

    Aqwertybqwerty L1: Registered

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    2fort. Debatably the worst map created in TF2, it is a map infested with tight chokepoints, limited routes, and oftentimes jam packed with engineers, snipers, and spam classes such as demomen. Stalemates are about as common as the rockets of the players that cause them, and overall the map is laughable when it comes to any half-serious play.

    Which means, of course, we will have to fix it.

    The challenge here, of course, is to create a new map as a spiritual succesor to the current 2fort that is more oriented towards balance and serious play. It can be anything from a "pro" version of 2fort to an almost completely different map, and anywhere in between. The question is, can the outstanding mappers on these forums create a better map than Valve themself? Although it remains up in the air until the contest ends, I believe the answer is: yes.

    The maps that are submitted will be judged by community feedback based on the following criteria:

    Aesthetics- Does the map have well arranged and decided props, overlays, and textures? Is the skybox and play area alike visually appealing to look at?

    Balance- Does the map provide equal oppurtunities for all teams and classes?

    Flow- Is the map fast-paced and fun to play, or does it have grinding stalemates and often leads to sudden death?

    Theme- Does the map stay true in spirit, style, or layout to the original 2fort while meeting the other criteria?

    Rules-
    *Map must be in the capture the flag format

    *Map must be based on a farmland setting or aesthetic

    *Map must contain the following elements from the original 2fort- symmetrical design, a central bridge, a sniper deck, and directly opposing bases for both teams

    *Map must be submitted in the .bsp format, with the name based on the following format: ctf_teufort_(submitter's forum name) . It will be submitted in a forum post containing a working link to the download for the bsp, the vmf of the map, and any screenshots or materials necessary for your map to function.

    *Map must be turned in by May 21st, 11:59pm EST. The map may be turned in before then, however, and may be resubmitted at any time until the due date has passed. After the due date ahs passed, a 24 hour grace period will be alloted to fix last-minute bugs and to update the map to it's most current version.

    *Map must be fully functional with working spawns, objectives, and entites. Any bugs preventing these from working will result in the map being disqualified unless the bug or bugs are fixed before the deadline.

    Prizes-

    The winner or winners of this competition will recieve both bragging rights and a free imaginary hat of any style you choose. Once chosen, this hat will be sent automatically to the winners backpack, although it may not appear due to it's attribute of not taking up any room. Trust me,it's there :)

    Good luck to any and all participants!
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  2. Yacan1

    aa Yacan1 D I G I T A L I N F L U E N C E R

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    This is interesting, It's just like... another ctf map inspired by 2fort would be just another map entirely. One of valve's mappers said they were messing around with making a better 2fort. (I want to say likka?)
     
  3. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

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    csf_2fort
     
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  4. Aqwertybqwerty

    Aqwertybqwerty L1: Registered

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    Nope, it needs to be vanilla ctf for the contest.
     
  5. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    The problem with 2fort is that it's a port and the game dynamics/mechanics from TFC>TF2 have changed. The game is slower because players are slower, that and jump perks are limited to 3 classes (exluding the pyro+detonater) instead of all 9 being able to grenade jump, DPS is lower because of damage falloff, several classes are less combat affective at range (pyro, demoman). The problem isn't necasserily the map... in fact most of the CTF maps suffer from the same negative symptoms. It isn't 2fort that's broken. It's CTF in TF2 in general.

    It would be possible to create a spiritual successor, but it wouldn't be 2fort anymore.

    Also i disagree that 2fort is the worst map in the game. It's one of the most beautiful maps in the game and it only tends to stalemate in 32 player instant respawn servers. If you play the game and map how it was supposed to be played, 24 man servers and 20 second respawn waves, the map isn't so bad.
     
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  6. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Yeah I agree, 2Fort is a god damn master-course in detailing. You can always learn something new from it.
     
  7. Vilepickle

    Vilepickle L7: Fancy Member

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    Players quickly changed the rules of TF2 after it came out to bump up the player cap and get rid of the spawn timer, so the problems of 2fort manifested rather early in the game. Those two settings pretty much "break" the map.
     
  8. Aqwertybqwerty

    Aqwertybqwerty L1: Registered

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    Thank you for the lengthy response. While I do see where your coming from in that CTF as a whole is flawed (something I agree with) and that 2fort mainly suffers as a port, this contest is about taking 2fort and changing it from a port into a version/variant more appropriate for TF2 in it's current state. I unfortunately never had the pleasure of playing TFC, but from my perspective a TF2 player 2fort has some problems that simply don't work well in this game and cannot be blamed on CTF as a whole, most notably the narrow chokepoints and the lack of flanking routes (yes, you do have the sewer, but all of the chokes feed into courtyard).
    Maybe "worst map in the game" isn't a completely accurate term, but nevertheless 2fort has it's fair share of problems that detract from the map as a whole.

    I will give the aesthetics argument to you though, 2fort remains one of the best looking official maps despite the numerous others released.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  9. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA7ytpUN2so#t=1m30s That's the heavy weapons guy covering a CTF map in ~12 seconds followed by other conc/grenade jumping demonstrations.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP-yQ-FUU3E, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzEbuQFKBuY Some more TFC gameplay at regular speed.

    Choke points and limited flank routes is only part of the problem regarding CTF. You can have wider flanks or more flanks, but the game is just so slow and the classes are so limited in manouverability... there's no way a port like 2fort or any other CTF would work without serious modifications; and even then, it's success would be limited to the functionality of TF2 classes, which has nothing to do with the map.

    Absolutely; and 2fort wasn't the only map to suffer from this. Dustbowl (which was also a faithful TFC port) became a nightmare as well, and both maps had various modifications added to them by Valve to try and balance the new mechanics/dynamics. Additional health and ammo, forward respawn visualisers, capture crits, etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  10. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    I may as well go ahead and finish up the edit I've been toying with and send it in, then. It's not all that fundamentally different, so I doubt it will win (explicit judging criteria notwithstanding, I suspect this is going to be weighted towards entries with more originality), but I can almost guarantee the changes will dramatically improve gameplay.
     
  11. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    i'd enter this, but i'd only end up with a map that's almost a copy-paste of ctf_deceit since that's what i came up with when trying to make a fun ctf map for tf2.

    - so yeh, not gonna enter this, but would recommend you try out ctf_deceit anyways(it was in the night of the living update mappack).
     
  12. Draco18s

    Draco18s L9: Fashionable Member

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    Just FYI:
    The engineer can jump too. Often higher and farther than an over-healed demo can, and have more health left over to boot.

    (Build a level 3 sentry pointed at a dispenser. Stand on dispenser. Use the wrangler to fire rockets at yourself. Fly.)
     
  13. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Yea, but trying to do that during actual gameplay is nigh impossible; and the time spent building all your gear, assuming it wasn't griefed by spies or destroyed by enemies is still an inefficient use of time just to jump somewhere.
     
  14. Draco18s

    Draco18s L9: Fashionable Member

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    The proper use is during setup to get up onto a ledge where you can't be threatened, but still lay down suppressing fire.

    Not to mention, teleporters so that friendlies can get up.
     
  15. Aqwertybqwerty

    Aqwertybqwerty L1: Registered

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    Gonna agree with grazr here, there are some engineers who can bullet-jump consistently with mini sentries during small lulls in combat, but outside of that it takes way too long to be practical unless the gain is reaching a normally unavailable area that's actually useful to hold such as the bridge on 2fort or the roof over the battlements on Doublecross, and you'll still get spammed/sniped down most of the time against a competent team unless it's durng setup time (obviously) or you're already setup in an area (like pre-nerfed Gorge).
     
  16. Draco18s

    Draco18s L9: Fashionable Member

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    There's one map (I'm forgetting it's name, where blue has a forward spawn above the center point (of 5) that some friends and I have managed to hold with only three engies by having sentry-jumped up onto the top of the building adjacent to this (locked) door.

    Oh, and not done it once or twice, but done it four times. In a row. Against the same team.

    They never managed to have more than one of us dead and down at a time.
     
  17. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Used to be able to lockdown gorge like this.
     
  18. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Well, your arguement that this can be done during setup time is kinda pointless when we're discussing CTF, which has no setup time.

    Plus we all know about the Gorge and goldrush engi exploits and how they were nerfed to balance the game. Which demonstrates that such circumstances are bad design and not intentional and anyone intending to put in ridiculous sentry nest positions isn't being objective in the balancing of classes.

    The point is TF2 gameplay is a fraction of the pace of TFC and the removal of grenade jumping from all classes, particularly the medic, has been a large contribution to that loss in pace. Whether the engi can wrangler jump or not.
     
  19. Headhunter09

    Headhunter09 L1: Registered

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  20. Limeaide

    Limeaide L2: Junior Member

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    I always noticed that Doublecross had a variety of things in common with 2fort considering the bridge with an alternate route that tuns under it and enters some sewers and some battlements that snipers can use for bridge defense. Maybe that was the spiritual successor Valve mentioned?