ctf_smuggler

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by Jeebies, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. Jeebies

    Jeebies L2: Junior Member

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    Hello all. I've been working on a map for a few weeks. It's my first real map and wow, have I learned a lot. I did many things wrong while making this map, but that's all part of learning right? Well, now I have to decide whether this thing is worth saving. I really like it though and think it would be a lot of fun if I can get the kinks worked out - mainly optimization. I know it would run like a dog on a lesser computer, I've got a pretty good one.

    The Smuggler
    A Team Fortress 2 Capture the Flag map with a center control point. Owning the control point grants your team access to the mining cart train that moves in between the 2 base’s dock. The dock has 3 doors in different parts of the base which are also restricted to point owners (you can exit either dock at any time, but your team must hold the control point to enter either dock). Failure to keep the control point makes getting in the enemy base harder, defending your base almost impossible, and even limits movement within your own base because access to your own dock is unavailable.

    [​IMG]
    By domenachi at 2008-02-19

    [​IMG]
    By domenachi at 2008-02-19

    I still have plenty to do, especially visually. It’s a long way from the standard TF2 art direction. If it works out in beta I will be trying to make it look more like TF2 is suppose to.

    There's probably also some unfixable issues in regard especially to not matching the minimum requirements of the game. One of the 'no-no's I did was to make a big center area, which probably can't be optimized much more than it is.

    I'm not really sure what to do from here though. Any advice would be appreciated. I feel like before putting any more time in it, I should find out whether it's any fun or not. Are there servers out there that like to try out new beta maps?

    thanks for any help.
     
  2. DrHaphazard

    DrHaphazard L5: Dapper Member

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    Hmm looks like you have started out well, but then again hard to tell from only 2 screenshots. Just from the scale of the trucks and the pipes in your 2nd shot i would caution against making maps too big. TF2 is at its heart a close combat game. Yeah yeah, i know we got rocket and grenade launchers and what all, but if you think about it, most of the fighting is done very close up.

    Its obvious you have done quite a bit of work on this map. I like the geometry of your first pic, its not a standard rectangle room, its got lots of good right angles, making it look more interesting visually. However, i would again caution that the room might be too big judging by the scale of the desk. Perhaps this is just my personal preference, but i would rather things be closer together.

    Oh and having such a big swathe of water looks weird, what with the repeating texture and all. I would try and find a way to break it up, perhaps with islands in the middle or something? In any case you have certainly done well so far. Keep up the good work.
     
  3. Jeebies

    Jeebies L2: Junior Member

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    I definitely agree with all that – yep yep. I’m sure it’s a very common newb mistake to make things too big at first. I spent quite a bit of time trying to cut back on open space after my initial brushwork. I can def. do some more of that in the middle area, I need a little more cover from snipers anyway. I’d like the control point to be very hard to get to, but not impossible. It’s kinda hard to figure out where that line can be found without it being beta-tested out there. I can never really know what direction to go with that – I may end up wanting it to be a matter of a spy having to cloak his way to the CP and leave it at that – I like the idea of certain classes being mandatory. But I don’t know if people in general like that kind of thing or if it just ends up being a pain.

    I can post some more screens too, later.

    Thanks for the advice and encouragement
     
  4. DrHaphazard

    DrHaphazard L5: Dapper Member

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    By the way, your gamestyle sounds intriguing, if you have any layout that youve drawn out, or maybe an overhead shot where you can show us how things are laid out that might be interesting to see.
     
  5. Jeebies

    Jeebies L2: Junior Member

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    [​IMG]

    On this diagram I only have the red side (left) written in, etc but it's an off center mirror of the right - the dock is internal - where the train pulls into the building.

    The center area has a slope represented with the arrow in the diagram – going up that direction. The red is the pier going to the CP in the center (hehe, in taking these new screenshots I realized I took the first ones while my FOV was cranked up to 90, fixed that here - it's not near as big as it looked before):
    [​IMG]
    If you notice how I have the battlements on the bridge facing, I’m planning on making the safest (or hopefully ‘slightly possible’) path from one’s own base to the control point, to first swim underwater to the other side and go up their slope. I'm trying to come up with something big to your right as you’re looking out your own base – blocking most of that path that’s closest to you. Or I might end up making it the other way, where your own side is the safer way – I’m not sure. But in any case, I need to come up with something big there, maybe a little thick patch of trees.

    The left side of this diagram is the red base. The dock has 3 doors – in purple on the diagram. The one right above the word “Dock” is here:
    [​IMG]

    It’s the only external dock door. The light above it changes to whatever team's color has the control point. While that team can get in both docks (red or blue), the other team can only exit these doors (unless of course someone’s letting them in) the other 2 dock doors are close on the dock side to each other, but no where near each other on the base side of those doors. So, in other words - you can't defend both areas.

    Btw, engineers can’t build inside dock.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Without use of the dock doors, the only other way in is through the waterway that leads from the 2 blue squares in the yellow to the 2 blue rectangles below them:

    [​IMG]

    There are various stairs and ramps throughout the orange section and then a couple in the green, then the maroon starts a single choke point to flag. About 18-20 seconds from the flag back to the closest dock door, which could lock chasers behind you at that point.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2008
  6. Jeebies

    Jeebies L2: Junior Member

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    The "battlements" in the middle were really just thrown up there, models actually. I'll probably change that to brush work later, if I could just decide the details of it's sniper cover.
     
  7. Jeebies

    Jeebies L2: Junior Member

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  8. Jeebies

    Jeebies L2: Junior Member

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  9. Jeebies

    Jeebies L2: Junior Member

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    Here's a peek at my latest:
    [​IMG]
    ..still so much to do :)
     
  10. Jeebies

    Jeebies L2: Junior Member

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  11. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    Nuce but texture stretching here and there. But it looks good man!
     
  12. Colt Seavers

    Colt Seavers L6: Sharp Member

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    We ran this a couple of times last night to give it a test cos it looks so purdy.

    There were two main problems:
    Snipers & Scouts

    after some fiddling serverside, I managed to get the maxclass plug in for metamod/sm working and restricted snipers to 0 and scouts to 3.

    I'm not a big fan of serverside restricts, unless its completely necessary.
    I'd say it was in this case.

    With a limit set, the game played alot better - but didn't advance far. I'm not sure why this was - I don't think people 'got' the usefulness of the train (although aot of engi's died trying to get a sentry on it which of course isnt possible but may be amusing if it was :p)

    The problem seemed to be one of scale. Broadly speaking, this is a 2fort / ctf badlands /2bridges style map but it feels much bigger and on a 24 man server managed to feel too big. This meant teams seldom capped the flag. We played for over an hour and had one cap.

    I apologise if we didn't understand the map properly, and haven't written it off at all - i love the way it looks! I'd really like to encourage you to keep working on it - but i wish i knew what to suggest to make the gameplay feel more fluid. Shrinking it could work wonders ;) I will continue to encourage sessions on the map both on the teamplay and the custom servers - cos i think we need more games and more people to know the map - but thought i'd bump this thread with some comments so you know that I think it's interesting enough to bother progressing with. Maybe even throwing a few more health packs around the place would lead to a higher chance of a team surviving back with the flag - or an extended timer for the flag to return to intel room once dropped?
     
  13. Brandished

    Brandished L5: Dapper Member

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    My suggestions:

    - The train activator buttons on the side need a delay before they can be used again, I rode it from the red base into the blue base, but hit the button on accident when I was trying to get out of the cart and was on my way back to the red base.

    -Are you suppose to be able to get through the hole in the roof above the train (I couldn't)? If it's there purely to shoot through I would make it smaller to avoid confusion.

    -I agree with Colt, snipers completly dominate this map leaving classes other then scouts and spys useless for offense. I would add an alternate way to get from one base to the other without exposing yourself to sniper fire. I'd use either a tunnel/side route or some way to access the water area in the center of the map from inside your base.

    - The one way exit from the intel room needs a little better visualization of the path leading out, maybe a fence or a higher more vertical ledge. I kept trying to walk over it :p