ctf_laynedecker

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Vig, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. Vig

    Vig L2: Junior Member

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    It is done... you can visits the maps "official" page here: http://vigville.com/ctf_laynedecker/

    On that page you'll find:
    The map.
    The fast download version for server admins.
    The Props Pack which contains all of the custom models and textures I created while working on this map. What map couldn't use a few more fish stuffed with rockets, a Blu Co. areal "recon" plane or maybe even a tug boat or a crane? They're there for you to use and enjoy, I hope you have as much fun using them in strange weird ways as I did building them.

    You'll need to email me (vig at hotmail dot com) if you want the original files I used to create the props, .max, .psd .obj ect... It's 123mb

    You can also connect directly to the ctf_laynedecker 24-7 server 67.183.54.34:27015 and automatically download the map before jumping in for a little mayhem.
     
  2. tovilovan

    tovilovan L6: Sharp Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

    I suppose you don't mind me using them in my map as long as I credit you?

    I'm sorry if I'm being rude, but could you by any chance make a fullsize version of the crane?
     
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    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  3. Vig

    Vig L2: Junior Member

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    Yea I can work on that tonight. I thought I included both versions in the prop pack but it must of been only in the source files. I'll send you a PM when the props pack has been updated.
     
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  4. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    YAY!

    I recommend also putting the prop pack on here, so people who don't know about your map can find it. Those galley props in particular are gonna be fun to use.
     
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  5. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    I liked the old name better, but what the heck, good to see this finished.
     
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  6. Deloras

    Deloras L2: Junior Member

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    My god, those props are exactly what I need in my oil rig map :eek:

    Can I use them? You'll of course be credited.
     
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  7. Vig

    Vig L2: Junior Member

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  8. Deloras

    Deloras L2: Junior Member

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    Can I ask you a blue skin for the tugboat? It would be so awesome for the narrative of my map!

    By the way I'm walking through the map, awesome looking, very clean, brillant detailing.

    Perhaps sometimes too empty. Especially the Red building facade and corridors.

    I did especially like the down middle way with the broken bridge and the crushed tugboat, very well executed part.

    It's also strange to see military stuff in tf2, as we may think it's banned from the game because of the tf2 basics and narrative. But the way you include it into your map changed my mind about it. Here it looks like Blue team Buyed it to the army without knowing how to use warships, then just rush to Red harbor, crash it on the dock and charge out of the boat like barbarians! I can imagine the scene...

    Well awesome looking map, I don't often play ctf, but I think I will make your map the excetption.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  9. Vig

    Vig L2: Junior Member

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    Deloras, I just updated the props pack with a blue version of the tugboat, if you want the source files to tweak the .psd files on your own, let me know and I can drop you the link.
     
  10. Deloras

    Deloras L2: Junior Member

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    Well thanks, that's perfect.
     
  11. Bob1897

    Bob1897 L1: Registered

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    I just tried this map out. While I love the theme and the custom models, its relatively hard to figure out where to go. All the corridors look the same, so its almost like navigating a maze. This is Layndecker's 1 downside, as everything else seems very finely polished, and looks great! ;)
     
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  12. Tinker

    aa Tinker

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    Your layout itself seems fine, maybe a little convoluted at points, but it's the signage that makes it a little confusing at times;
    [​IMG]
    Consider using two different kind of signs for the intel and the exits (for example, use the wooden ground signs for pointing to the intelligence), and take out some signage, because there is too much which makes it hard to see where to go.
     
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  13. Swiss Army Knife

    Swiss Army Knife L1: Registered

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    Very happy to see this map get finished, it turned out really well and the custom models are top notch and make the map absolutely unique.

    Really hope to see this get made official it definitely deserves it.
     
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  14. Vig

    Vig L2: Junior Member

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    Tinker, yea I agree and I like the idea of using 2 separate signs. Next time around I'll probably do that. I experimented with making my own signs but scrapped the idea because of logistics and file size. Way too many textures and meshes in a map already packed full.

    In the example you show, the signs aren't meant to point at the wooden arrow. The sign on the right is to help guide players down the back stairs and to the left. Players where running straight out into the hall, away from the intel.
    The sign on the left is for players entering on the top level so they look down. The view you're looking at is confusing sure, but if you take the entire room into account and hopefully its more clear.
    Maybe I should of lightened the glass and pushed the intel closer to the window...
    Or maybe hanging signs that point directly at the intel instead of the corner in hopes that the player would keep turning around...
    Or maybe change the staircase to point into the intel room at another angle...

    Traditional TF2 signage just doesn't work that well with non-linear maps.
    Most of the levels in TF2 (and signs) are created to be a straight line with the player following one objective. Cart goes from start to finish, points are capped in order, bases have straight paths between them. What's true for one player is true for all of that team. "If you see an arrow you follow it into conflict."

    There aren't too many situational signs in TF2 that help cover CTF maps. As a result they tend to be very linear and pretty easy for one person to cock block an entire map, which sort of breaks the team aspect of it. I understand the importance of choke points but personally I think 2fort is a bit extreme and a lot of other maps follow suit, so I wanted to open it up a bit.

    [CTF sign idea]
    It would be GREAT if signs where dynamic and displayed according to the players mission and even position/direction in the map. So instead of having a tree full of signs at every crossroad you have one sign that displays only the info the player needs to see.
    Examples:
    If you have the intel, the signs point to the exit in the enemy base, and to the intel room in your base.
    If you don't have the intel, the signs point to the enemy intel.

    If I had my way there would be a set of UI/HUD switches players could turn on manually and would be automated to some extent based on what they've done and what class they are.
    Defend: Signs point to battlements and defensive positions like sniper positions and suggested engineer building sites.
    Invade: Signs point to enemy intel.
    Recover: Signs point to the enemy exits and to your intel room.
    Get health: Signs point to resupply or heath.
    I would also like to see the compass or HLTV maps come to TF2.

    They tried to do this to some extent with the CTF hud pointing but I think it fails in a few ways.
    It fails to help you navigate the map by only pointing in the general direction of the intel, something most players already instinctively know already. What they need to know is right or left, they know to keep moving forward.
    It fails to work on multi level maps, you're standing right above or below the intel... now what?
    Because its part of the HUD and not in the game world it gets ignored, this is mostly out of practicality.
    [/CTF sign idea]

    At first I leaned toward having minimal signs and just told people to learn the simple layout. But that normally turned people off, especially the payload and cap point players who heavily relay on signs.

    Here is the base layout
    [​IMG]
    SO I started putting in signs... But it's hard to guess where people will go on their first play though, since I built the map... Mazes are easy to navigate unless you're the mouse.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  15. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    one of the things that knocked me was the two exit signs that point at doors. That is an easy logical link, yes, so long as the doors open. These ones didnt.
     
  16. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    The issue with people getting lost/ knowing were to go has more to do with your layout then anything. Unless the player knows the map like the back of their hand your better off working the layout so it "leads" them too the objective instead of trying to do some HUD/sign thing that people will tend to ignore.
     
  17. Vig

    Vig L2: Junior Member

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    Humm yea that could be confusing... it didn't occur to me that anyone would want to go through the locked hatches or freezer doors, they are there just for detail. probably should be more clear in their design that they won't open, or use some other kind of detail... Thanks for bringing that up. It's one of those things if you know they won't open you don't think about it... too much play testing with people who know the map can be a bad thing, so thanks for the fresh take =)

    I agree. It is much easier to lead people, and thats easier to do if its linear, something I'll probably stick to next time around.

    Now that you bring it up there are a few things that I can think of that would be misleading like a hall that looks like you can take a right or left at the end, but you can only take a left. Or stairs that dump you into a room facing the opposite direction.

    I'll either re-work these things or I'll just count them as lessons learned and carry it to the next map I make =)

    Thanks for the feedback guys!