cp_orange2

[temion]

I put put it on a 24/7 server if you want to try it in game.


AlphaOmega ClanAO.com Orange 66.90.103.192:27028

 

[absurdistof]

I respect what you've done for orange, it really looks great, but personally my problem with the map is much bigger then any medium-small changes to the layout itself. The problem I take up most with the map is it's empty space/random building approach to tf2. I will demonstrate with a picture.

In this picture, there are four colors I have drawn on. The colors are
red
Red represents all the open space on the map.

Yellow
Yellow is representative of buildings that are designed to break up open space, but will have little effect (possibly even negative) effect on gameplay, in addition to not accomplishing their goals. A good example of this is the waterfall pool in the lower right corner of the map, or the red equivalent on the opposite side of the map. Both of these 'buildings' are areas I even counted as open space because they really serve no purpose. A player would have to go out of their way to get there, and once there they would only be somewhere they can't benefit their team from unless they are a sniper.

Blue
The blue lines are ground sightlines. There are many and they are massive.
The blue box around the middle tower is a replacement for hundreds of blue sightlines that would block out the map.

Green
The small boxed green section (not the line, that was an accident) is the only place on the map that I would consider a component of a good map. Know that I do not mean it serves good purpose in this map, it's just a small area that could be part of a better map.


Now, I know this picture is old, and that you have probably made some additions, but my point is that I don't think little additions can save this map. It's structure, the means by which it was built are flawed in my mind, so unless you do a massive re-haul of the map or start over I don't think it will play much better.

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you all this, and I really do respect the work you did for the map, it looks much better then it did in dev.

 

[temion]

Interesting! Thanks for taking the time. Gameplay is a bit different from the screenshot your illustrating compared to the 1st alpha release, but regardless of that, i'm curious how you would think these problems can be resolved?

My goal is to finish this map if it kills me so if there is a way to help this, (aka an over haul in some form) I would appreciate some thoughts on how to achieve this.

You say there is no "point" in going to the 2nd and 4th points. Should these point be even more linear (ie you have to cross them to reach the final point) or should there be something placed there to give purpose to the space?

These two points (2nd / 4th) are actually going to be the areas i tackle for the next alpha version. I am working with some ideas on placing enclosed buildings in these areas. Possibly have the buildings extend to fill these open spaces. However part of the feel i want to keep is an open space. Not like worthless open space, but just enough to keep the map from feeling "cramped". I'm not a fan of 2fort because it feels cramped, for example.

In the version you took the screenshot from, it is already considerably smaller then orange_x in any of its forms. Maybe take a look at the download and see if maybe it isn't so bad?

Thanks for taking the time regardless.

 

[red_flame586]

You say there is no "point" in going to the 2nd and 4th points. Should these point be even more linear (ie you have to cross them to reach the final point) or should there be something placed there to give purpose to the space?

What you could have for those two points is a large building somewhere like what is below and get rid of the building in the way.

(I do understand this is an old image and it might completely wreck your plans)

This would allow the defenders to have a defensive bonus from attacker coming in through the outside who would be funnelled into the last point, It would also give the attackers a place to rest, regroup and heal for an assault on the last point, a large problem with the original map.

You could also include a direct secondary pathway from the 2nd/4th cp to encourage attackers to use and defend it.

EDIT: also, get rid of the waterfall thing, and maybe replace it with a shack or something, it just doesn't fit

 

[temion]

Here is an idea i'm rolling around. What do you guys think? You can flank when on the final point this way from either team.