CP_orange oh god no

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by v0nn_toaster, May 18, 2017.

  1. v0nn_toaster

    v0nn_toaster L1: Registered

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    Just look
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    this is CP_orange x3 and i dont like it one bit

    how is this map so popular??!!?
    when there are great looking maps that are rarely heard of?

    the whole thing is badly lit
    covered on dev textures and is just everything you shouldn't do while mapping
    the only way to get back into spawn is to jump and parkour
    besides a blue team member can get in a red spawn and vise versa
    why does this exsist?


    am i the only who thinks this?
     
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  2. Faux Rhinoceros

    aa Faux Rhinoceros Also known as Dr. Element

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    dae no love for the real map rite guis??
     
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  3. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    Bit late to the punch aren't ye
     
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  4. Startacker

    Startacker L3: Member

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    It's the perfect map for players who just want to kill each other. Easy to understand, open, and large sightlines. Does it make it a good map serious play wise? Nah, but players who play on Orange probably didn't care about seriousness to begin with.
     
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  5. Tuaam

    Tuaam L6: Sharp Member

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    I met with the creator a few years ago. What happened was that he was going to work on the map a little more, but time fell short and he never got to working on it as time passed on. So, he uploaded the last version of cp_orange and it got circulated through the tf2 community.

    Last time I checked, he doesn't map anymore. Forgot his name.
     
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  6. Infomaniac

    Infomaniac L4: Comfortable Member

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    Reminder that there is a version where the tower is 50ft tall.
     
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  7. [Rx.] Christian Troy

    [Rx.] Christian Troy L1: Registered

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    It's the layout and balance for both teams.

    A map can be loaded to the hilt with pretty stuff but if players don't have much actual gameplay, the players get bored fast and leave.

    Orange cp became popular because even thought it looks ugly, the author made sure all the gameplay and balance between teams was there first.

    There should be another version with "fix" on the end of its name that took care of the original's ailments.
     
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  8. v0nn_toaster

    v0nn_toaster L1: Registered

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    I can make a wide open map like my koth_denali
    Its fine for gameplay but it looks dull and not much goes on.
     
  9. v0nn_toaster

    v0nn_toaster L1: Registered

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    So its 50x worse?
     
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  10. [Rx.] Christian Troy

    [Rx.] Christian Troy L1: Registered

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    That's the ugly truth so to speak. As long as the game play and teams are balanced, people will play it even if the cosmetics are ugly. Unlike quite a few mappers, I actually play the game as well. With years in game and mapping, I know what the ugly truths are about this game lol. :p

    I really don't mean to be a dick by saying this but, it's another ugly truth... there is a reason a lot of pretty maps never get put on a dedicated server outside of testing or the few that do, are just empty servers 24/7. ;) Also keep in mind that TF2 these days is riddled with kids who flock to trade/idle maps. (Yes there is a reason I'm king of the idle servers lol, I know what the community wants!)

    However, there is also a lot of pluses to the game that out weigh the negatives but at the same time, mappers need to take the ugly truths into consideration too if they actually want people running and/or playing their maps. Then again there are maps that are made just for show as well that will totally blow you away. :D
     
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  11. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    The idea that orange is "balanced" is openly ludicrous. Try playing heavy on it some time and see how long it is before you get sniped. Try setting a sentry up at any more than a handful of spots and see how long it is before you get sniped. It's easy to spawncamp too, and camping is the most viable way to defend two of the points.

    Sure, people play it. If you want to fuck about as sniper and snipe some other snipers then sure. Like, i'm not shitting on that, that's a legit way to play the game. But that's a specific use-case, and when you apply any other standard of "quality" in maps to it then it falls dramatically short. If you like plain tomato-cheese pizza then that's fine, eat that. Just don't tell me it's the best pizza ever, and that you're king of the pizzas, and that the ugly truth is that pepperoni is bad.
     
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  12. iiboharz

    aa iiboharz meme queen

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    Soft reminder that cp_orange is actually a remake/port of dod_orange from Day of Defeat.
    [​IMG]
    I've never played DoD but assuming it works in that game, someone must have thought it was a good idea for a TF2 map, though from what I can tell, it's a really badly done and overscaled port.
     
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  13. v0nn_toaster

    v0nn_toaster L1: Registered

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    Fak you i liek pepperoni :(
     
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  14. Freyja

    aa Freyja Help I'm trapped in this post

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    Suijin is TERRIBLE as koth and yet it's popular because I put work into the aesthetics. It even has 24/7 servers for it. Which I don't get because I never even liked the koth version! But then again, if you like orange's gameplay Suijin is probably your kind of thing anyway...it's much the same kind of sniper haven.
     
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  15. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR 水素臭い

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    Ah, the classic "I have 11,000 hours in the game, so I must be good at developing for it!" line.

    The ugly truth is that half the time, players don't know what they want. They just think that what exists is what they want, so they ask for that. As a mapper, you're making the stuff they don't know they want. This can be either gameplay, or looks. Maps with strengths in one or the other have both succeeded. As Freyja pointed out (and I agree with her on this) - Suijin Koth is beautiful, but plays really poorly - yet people love it.

    Then there's been maps that look terrible, but are just fun to play on - and those are popular as well. Probably only a few people remember it - but koth_garbageday was probably one of the most fun KoTH maps I've ever played and it looked crap compared to some maps today. Rainbow Ride has no detailing what-so-ever and is just colourful - it's also just stupid fun to play on and was popular for its time.
     
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  16. Hydrogen

    aa Hydrogen MvM Maniac

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    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.

     
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  17. v0nn_toaster

    v0nn_toaster L1: Registered

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    No wonder i got sniped when i walked out of spawn, then got lost. No offense though
     
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  18. v0nn_toaster

    v0nn_toaster L1: Registered

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    What?
     
  19. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR 水素臭い

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    It's a quote from Henry Ford, when asked about why he invented the first motor car.

    EDIT: Apparently, it is mis-attributed to Henry Ford, and we have no evidence of him saying it. (Thanks @Hydrogen )
     
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    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  20. [Rx.] Christian Troy

    [Rx.] Christian Troy L1: Registered

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    Ah the let's make assumptions thing. But hey, you know what they say about assumptions... :D

    Just because I'm a little new here doesn't mean I am new to mapping/development. Nor did I ever say all maps that mostly focus on being pretty are not popular. Yes some are but still, not a lot are either like I mentioned. It's not rocket science on figuring out what players are looking for either. It's just a bit time consuming but worth the invested time to play with players, talk to them, discuss theses things with them, have them test with you (not just the people here but get their input too), etc. One of the road blocks in this is that not a lot have access to dedicated servers or even have ran a dedicated server. (And just because I said not a lot, it doesn't mean all!)

    So I am not a total negative nancy here, but rest of what you mention is also why Orangex3 is popular as well. Sure people can spawn camp, camp, snipe, etc. But the same will also happen on any other map when your team sucks (2fort anyone? :p). Does this mean that Dustbowl is the worst map made considering the defending team is always camping and sniping people in the open? ;)