MVM Corridors

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Khorps, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. Khorps

    Khorps L1: Registered

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    Current version: Final, not going to be working on this anymore.

    Thanks to: FloodFetter for his server and suggestions, multiple others in my friends list. And everybody who joined during public testing.

    Thanks to Cable for helping me by testing my map, making missions for it and being a good friend.

    If you have any problems please let me know. But this will probably be the final version of the map. Any updates beyond will be bug fixes.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2015
  2. Turbo Lover

    aa Turbo Lover Fight me under Glasgow Central Station

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    As a rule of thumb, don't make robots smaller than normal, players generally don't like it when they're harder to hit. This is the rule of thumb for robots that are about 40-50% smaller than normal. Your robots are so small they can barely be seen, they're faster than normal, and they build level 3 sentries. So I'd strongly recommend you remove them or make them normal sized.

    As another rule of thumb, players generally don't like it when they need to constantly check for Spies, especially in longer waves where the regular enemies trickle in a few at a time. Several of your waves have this problem, so I'd recommend you decrease the number of Spies that spawn and increase their respawn time.

    The Loose Cannon Demomen rarely, if ever, fired their weapon. Instead they just kept charging it and hitting themselves with the explosive damage. Stick to normal primary weapons or melee weapons with Demomen, they do not know how to charge the Loose Cannon's shot or detonate stickies manually.

    As for the map, there were multiple cases of robots being stuck inside spawn preventing the wave from being completed, make sure all spawnpoints are placed above ground and that there's nothing blocking them from moving out of spawn.

    The large empty spaces in your map are boring to traverse and ultimately pointless, as there were no pickup items in the area and the robots never used these paths to reach the bomb hatch. Add some rooms or platforms - anything really to this area, and it would be a lot more interesting, you can also force robots to take certain paths using nav brush entities, giving the area some kind of purpose.

    Lastly, your hatch area is very small and cramped, and the only spawn exit opens up right onto it. That means if there's a handful of Heavies standing around there when somebody respawns they're going to immediately die as they exit spawn. Spawns in MvM should have multiple exits, some distance from each other and the hatch, and shouldn't directly face the hatch so robots can't shoot in.

    This map has some interesting ideas, like the sentry position which can defend the beginning and the end of the map at the same time, so I'd like to see you continue working on this. Remember that if you need testing, you can ask in our group's Steam chat and somebody can upload your map to our MvM server.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  3. Khorps

    Khorps L1: Registered

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    First of all robots never got stuck in spawn in any of my tests all thoughout to wave 5.
    So that might be your problem. RC1 is coming soon and I'm working on the idea that bots will take the empty space occasionally but I'm fixing errors with it. There is two spawn exits when you spawn turn around and shoot the door. It leads to the outside area.

    I'v had complaints about the hatch being to small it's really going to be a pain to fix that since that is central to the map and I'll have to rip the map in half to do that but oh well.

    EDIT: The bots need to have a stratedgy too. So the engineers are tiny not only to be funny but to be hidden.
    I planned this map to be hard with atleast 3 people on the team we weren't really annoyed by the spies. The minimum shall be 3 players so that the spies shouldn't be to annoying. The pirates are programmed specifically to blow themselves up in your face.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  4. hutty

    aa hutty

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    Then why don't u give them cabers
     
  5. killohurtz

    aa killohurtz Distinction in Applied Carving

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    If you're still fixing errors with the bot paths and receiving complaints about an integral part of the map, then I don't think you want to call this a release candidate yet. Listen to the feedback you're getting - even if the bots didn't get stuck for you, it wouldn't hurt you to raise the spawn entities off the ground a little so that it doesn't happen to others.

    And maybe you don't see a problem with tiny engineers, kamikaze demomen, and an abundance of spies, but that doesn't mean they're a good idea. Engineers are already tough to take out if they're allowed to set up; try to avoid giving them any more advantages. And since it wasn't apparent that the demomen were programmed that way on purpose, they probably aren't doing their job very well. You can achieve good bot strategies without making them annoying or pointless.

    It looks very barren in the screenshots too, so you might want to do some kind of detailing and add more cover before calling it finished.
     
  6. Khorps

    Khorps L1: Registered

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    The bot paths are fine now download the map and look for yourself. The spawn entities are raised off the ground. I don't want to edit the pop file since it took maybe 2 months just to get it right. But I'll do it anyways. I also do have plans for making the hatch area bigger, I'm working on it.
     
  7. Khorps

    Khorps L1: Registered

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    If I did that you could constantly run away. They'd never hit you they'd never blow up.
     
  8. Khorps

    Khorps L1: Registered

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    For all who commented recently your problems with the robot design will be solved when this map is called release candidate.
     
  9. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

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    Just in terms of detail, I'd say this is pretty far from what I'd call release candidate.
     
  10. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    You cant make a good mvm map without a good mission. So if there is issues in the mission itself, its a must to fix that. In fact, if your mission is broken people cant even decently test the map to begin with. That 'broken' engineer on his 'overpowered' spot could just be because the other bots which dont give you a chance to take it out.

    Balance is the key to a good map. Popfiles in mvm decide how hard the mission is (if that isnt the case your map itself is the hazard, which in mvm is the worst to have unless its a map gimmick like the capture areas on mannhattan - which on is still required to be balanced versus the popfile).

    Small engineers to hide them is a bad idea. No player wants to suddenly face an engy out of randomness. If they should be harder to destroy before they have built, give them a medic. Thats what valve did for them on decoy.

    Keep in mind that for a scout it takes him 6 scattergun shots to take out a teleporter (indicating they have alot more health than a pub teleporter), so if they can build its often a big hazard as they wont just be randomly destroyed. Any warning is welcome.

    Gimmicks on bots in mvm only work if there is a decent indication. For bot types its often the icon, but even then they still have hats to truly mark them being that bot.
     
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  11. Khorps

    Khorps L1: Registered

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    Again I'm working on it, things people suggest or complain about will be fixed but I can't fix it instantly and I can't give a download instantly since I want the download to always give a working version.
     
  12. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    Keep in mind that popfile updates can be done seperately to the map. Just dont name it the same as the popfile already existing in the map.

    If the map name is mvm_corridors_a4 and the popfile in that map is also mvm_corridors_a4, just call it mvm_corridors_a4_v2. It indicates a new version of the popfile for that specific map version. For a5 you then can just call it a5 again.

    Only when someone else makes the popfile and it doesnt get renewed for each release its best that the popfile then has its own version counting (but v6 of the advanced popfile for a5 of the map would then still be called mvm_corridors_a5_advanced1_v6).

    The diffirent name ensures it shows correctly in votes as the above example of adv1 v6 would show 'Advanced1 v6' in the vote window
     
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  13. Khorps

    Khorps L1: Registered

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    This helps although usually I'm making small tweaks to the map along with changes to the popfile.