control point race

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by re1wind, Aug 15, 2009.

  1. re1wind

    aa re1wind

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    So i have this rather large map, which could work with 32 players, but it's a bit too big. I've been tempted to make it TC, however, that would require extensive conversion. Additional spawn areas, cutting through dozens of displacements all the named func_brushes to control access, etc., etc. While possible, and i could do as a parallel project, the easier solution would be to have a 5 point well/granery style layout flipped along the middle cp, all point uncapped, and make it a race to capture the last & farthest control point, which makes the capturing team win.

    Hence Control point race. CPR. Yeah...Awesome name acronyme :laugh:
    Did a few searches, haven't found anything that relevant, or anything using the acronyme cpr, or control point race, so I'm not sure if this has been done/talked/discussed/dismissed before. :)

    Setup is easy, everything already exists, works, and doesn't require any magic scripting to make it work *cough* OVERTIME!. Over-time. oveeertime! OVERtime!!! OVERTIME!!! Etc. ;)

    Everything is pretty much standard, functional and easily available, but the question now is -with the 8 cp limit- how much of a "race" can this actually be?

    Well, for starters well/granery maps wouldn't work unless the number of cp's was doubled (i.e. 2 cp's at each point, allowing both teams to attack the final point of the other team at the same time) but the cp limit doesn't allow that. The obvious solution is to look at payload race maps, and that's more or less what i'm going for. The final stage of plr_pipeline is what i'm looking at specifically -in layout design of two carts "racing" each other up a hill.

    the problem, though, is giving the other team sufficient access to the other team's control points, which means having them close together, outside of sentry range, but not too far away from the map's symmetrical axis.

    Going back to the race part, with a limit of 8 cp's (also for mini-rounds like goldrush & dustbowl? asking this question I am) there are a few possible setups
    1) both teams have 4 cp's, racing each other to capture the last one. Or with three flavours. having 2 cp's in a "race" doesn't quite make much sense.
    2) Teams have 2 or 3 unique cp's linked in order with a single final control point (plr_pipeline 3rd mini-round, although there seem to be2 cp's at the top)

    Is my sleep-deprived state influencing my ability to make sensible judgements, or does this seem interesting?
     
  2. alecom

    alecom L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    scout race...
     
  3. re1wind

    aa re1wind

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    Like granary? or all CTF maps at the start?

    It only works on the first round or two in granary as one team catches the other with their pants down. But soon the pyros arrive at the middle point, with everything else following shortly after.

    Take this layout for example:
    [​IMG]
    scout rushes are impossible, or difficult as blu team will get to red's A cp at roughly the same time as the blu scouts. It could devolve into a stalemate right there, but that depends more on the map layout than the game type.

    Additionally, new players aren't exposed to the entire level immediately, first duking it out with the other team near the A cp's and as either one of the A control points is captured, the map is expanded to allow both teams access to the middle B section. Capturing B enables a spawn area closer to the final point.
     
  4. jpr

    aa jpr

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    plr can be scout race too, since scouts push the cart faster...
     
  5. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    Facing a single sentry can somewhat make an end to that already.

    I dont think the cp race type is realy going to work. Simply because when the captime is too long it never would be capped. If its too short you still often get the effect that hydro has. People just camp the point and send small waves to try to take the other one which has the same. Payload races work better simply because they have a long push with only a small part that needs you to hold it a few seconds. But even there it can results in a stalemate.

    I suggest locking the points for about 1 minute/30 seconds to allow all classes to reach the point and prevent the scout rushes. A short cap time is a must however. It will however remain quite hard to make it balanced and fun but when you succeed it will be great.
     
  6. re1wind

    aa re1wind

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    Yes, the capture times are what can break or make the map. I need to play with those a bit.

    I like the idea of locking the A control points for a while, although that allows engineer teams to set up base on the opponent's control point. closing off the immediate area around the control point areas could help to solve that. I guess there's no simple & clean solution.
     
  7. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    I hate to say it but I think this idea will be totally shot down by these two words. :(
     
  8. re1wind

    aa re1wind

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    I can always be evil and place a destroyable sentry of the opposite team on each control point... *evil grin*

    I am though -for the time being- sticking with the idea of blocking off the control points during a 60 second setup timer in which teams can do what they want in the "A" section of the map while the "B" & "C" sections are closed off. Like Arena & Koth.

    Granery without the setup timers is a scout rush of epic sad proportions. However, when the doors and setup timers were added it was less of a scout rush, but became more of dustbowl with ubers & cits flying all over the place.

    Steel & Egypt, though, offer some suggestions as to how to help relieve this effect. Gates blocking off the rest of the map and when opened, they open slowly.

    Even if this "race" turns into a scout rush continuously despite my best efforts to squash them down, the extra work put into it won't be for naught. A few changes and i have a "standard" 5 point cp layout that uses a lot of the map at the same time instead of being all linear and localized ala granary, well & yukon (which are all Epic stalemate maps, actually)
     
  9. alecom

    alecom L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    The difference with normal 5cp maps is that once the scouts have gotten the middle point, they are still having to go against the tides of the rest of the opposing team. Here, there is nothing coming the other way, so assuming 3 scouts on blu killed the 3 on red, they can run to the next point unopposed since the rest of the other team is not in the way.
     
  10. re1wind

    aa re1wind

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    True, very true.
    Though, remember back when cp_granary had a setup timer and gates, until they got removed. The previous scout rush-fest of that map disappeared, as the scouts couldn't reach the control point before the heavier classes arrived.

    Apply a similar principle that blocks off the first control points during a 60 second setup timer, and the scouts won't be alone, as the heavier classes will have caught up to them.

    Block off access to the next set of control points and you avoid a few spies/scouts sitting on the cp waiting for the first one to be taken.