Confinement

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Artesia, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    cp_confinement_a2 released
    recommended players 6-16

    Custom Gameplay by Artesia
    Original Post

    How to Play:

    -First team to reach 100 Production Wins.

    -Command Points earn Production over time (1 production every 15 seconds).

    -Capture the Intelligence at a friendly Command Point for Production (amount based on game score (see below)

    -The intelligence resets 30 seconds after capture.

    -Enemies near your CP will prevent the Intel from being captured or Production from being earned. Including cloaked/disguised spies.

    -Spawn times are affected by the number of CPs you own (More CPs = Longer spawntime)

    -Custom CP model for intel CP, will be changed again later

    -Actually bothered to compile cubemaps this time

    I wasn't planning on releasing a new version until I had A3 ready, but to satisfy Grimgriz I have made a revision to version 2 which includes many of the major issues A2 had, this is not meant as an A3 release however as there is major layout changes I'm working on for A3.

    Changes in A2 Rev B:

    -Fixed intel bug where intel would be disabled but not re-enabled, the problem is replaced by the door in A2 Rev A but some of the triggers remained

    -Moved balcony on red side to the other side of the hut to cover the other hallway

    -Fixed Signage

    Changes in A2 Rev A:

    -Put hatch covering intel to be able to keep the intel on the cooldown without disabling it, this hopefully will fix the bug where the intel was getting stuck to people and they couldn't cap it.

    -Lowered Round times, CPs now earn production twice as fast for faster rounds, Intel has been reworked (see next) but is also worth more production

    -Added varying intel values, Intel is worth different production based on score conditions, by default it is now worth 6 production, if the score difference between red and blu is more than 12, the intel is worth 1/2 the difference for the losing team (example red has a score of 50, blu has a score of 10, if blu caps the intel it will be worth (50-10)/2 or 20 production). Additionally it decreases for the winning team, there is no formula for this, it is currently set at:
    __________Difference__________Production Value____________
    ___________12-20__________________5__________________
    ___________21-29__________________4__________________
    ___________30-39__________________3__________________
    ___________40-59__________________2__________________
    ____________60+___________________1__________________
    This is done to help losing teams catch up, without making it overpowered as to where they can instantly pass the winning team (intel alone can't pass them, intel + capping CPs is advised.

    -Added ramps to catwalks

    -began detailing on center of map, including the addition to an actual roof for the intel building

    -Unclipped the roofs, soldiers and demoman may now access them

    -Added balconies to huts in an attempt to make them more desirable for engineers


    Changes in A2:

    -Implemented changing Spawn times (times may change due to balance)

    -Added 30 second cooldown period before Intel resets after being capped

    -Removed flashing game_text_tf messages allerting players of intel zones

    -Added new HUD element directly below Intel Icon which displays which CP the intel is near, or which 2 CPs the intel is in between. it will say "Center" if in the center of the map. After the intel is capped, this HUD element counts down from 30 when the intel resets. This hud element also changes colors based on the intel being held by either team, or being dropped (Red Blu or Yellow respectively)

    -Fixed timer! The timer that was counting down to nothing happening has been replaced. It now is counting down an estimate of when the game will end at the current CP status. Capping the intel will remove time (if the capping team is in the lead) as there is less production to earn to win, therefor less time. Additionally right below the timer is text stating who will win in that amount of time if the CPs remain under their current owners.

    -Fixed doors in tunnels sticking through floor in game area

    -Fixed getting stuck in spawn doors (hopefully, please screenshot any occurances and describe what you were doing, running forwards, sitting still, etc.)

    -Instructional Overlay in both Main Spawnroom, same text as above. I still have it in the welcome screen but no one reads it so I added it here so people can go back and read it if they need to.

    -Overlays and signs have been added for better clarity, both in CP spawns and escape tunnels

    -Added connecting path from catwalks between points A&B and C&D.

    -Adjusted lower wall of both huts to give line of sight from all CPs to all 4 sniper perches on catwalks in the center (going across diagonally).
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  2. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    Interesting concept! I will have to try this out.
     
  3. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    grimgriz has showed concern at the varying intel times which are:

    -Added varying intel values, Intel is worth different production based on score conditions, by default it is now worth 6 production, if the score difference between red and blu is more than 12, the intel is worth 1/2 the difference for the losing team (example red has a score of 50, blu has a score of 10, if blu caps the intel it will be worth (50-10)/2 or 20 production). Additionally it decreases for the winning team, there is no formula for this, it is currently set at:
    __________Difference__________Production Value____________
    ___________12-20__________________5__________________
    ___________21-29__________________4__________________
    ___________30-39__________________3__________________
    ___________40-59__________________2__________________
    ____________60+___________________1_______________ ___

    This is an attempt to make it so the losing team always has chance at a comback, without having to take the entire map to do so. depending on the score value they might have to take the full map or the majority of it.

    His concerns are that the varying times make the Production the winning team has already earned are worth less since the losing team can cover 1/2 the Production difference in a single capture, and the winning team gets less production for that same capture.

    My goal for this was to make the intelligence a more important part of the map, without taking focus off the CPs. As a team gets farther and farther ahead, my goal was to make them more aware about keeping the intel out of enemy hands, while at the same time, the losing team wanting to focus on the intel to try and catch up. Since it would only take them 50% of the way to caught up each capture until they're within 6 production, they would still need to take probably 2 CPs and run the intel to win.

    Grimgriz is concerned that this makes it easier for the losing team. I argue that the farther a team is ahead, the harder they have to work to keep that lead as the losing team has more opportunity to attempt to close the gap. Once the gap is closed (both team scores within 12 of each other) the intel is once again worth 6 production for each team. My stance was that if the winning team slacks off, or can't keep the intel away from the losing team, that the losing team has earned the production (50% of the difference).

    Anyways I'd appreciate additional input, hopefully from people that tried this today. This is similar to a DOM map, but a team that caps all 4 CPs does NOT win, this score mechanism was put in place to give the losing team some hope of a comeback. Also remember that the losing team would have to capture 1 CP in order to capture the intel.

    anyways, I'd like additional feedback, maybe after we playtest it more.
     
  4. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    My opinion is simply that if red holds 3 points for 3 minutes and gains a large score lead over blue, blue should have to reverse the situation and hold 3 points for 3 minutes to catch up, and not simply run the intel once and hold 3 points for 1.5 minutes.

    I think an intel value variation based on number of points held (rather than score difference) is appropriate. If your enemy hold 3 points, it's harder for you to turn-in the intel, so the intel could be worth more...but the value variation should be relatively minor.
     
  5. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Yeah, I'd have to play more to give much feedback.

    The layout was decent and it was pretty fun. Easy enough to understand once you got it, it's not overly complicated.

    I don't want to even get into the points/times thing. Good luck ;)
    I understand how it's working to a degree, but in game I just saw points being capped, never noticed any intel related stuff. I mean I saw people pick it up/carry it/cap it... but as far as seeing those points cap or knowing what's happening point wise ???
    I think you'd have to just spectate for awhile and watch everything go down.

    That's what I like about the dm mode. You have the icons on the points showing team points like a graph. I think implementing that might help alot.
     
  6. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean showing things like a graph, if you mean show the score related stuff in the map instead of on the HUD I don't want to do that...

    I'm thinking I should display a game_text_tf when a team caps the intel, saying how much the team earned for the capture

    the other option is to use the countdown/intel status text below the intel icon to say like "+6" in red or blu when it is capped, that would stay on screen for a few seconds then would go to the countdown for the intel reset...
     
  7. DaFatCat

    DaFatCat L3: Member

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    I think you went a bit crazy with the signs in screenshot #2

    Otherwise purdy cool.
     
  8. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    LOL yeah I didn't want to risk anyone getting confused which tends to happen on DOM maps, I plan on removing most of them one I have a custom CP model for each point
     
  9. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I don't know what it's called. The 'flag' I guess, or icon that is onthe point itself in dom_canalzone.

    It's like a 3d blu/red graph that shows progress of each team in points at each point. It also has the points on screen.
    So it's not adding more hud elements, just a change of the flag object on each point.
     
  10. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    I'd have to load it up and look. I don't like making gameplay things like score visible only by looking at something in the game, things like that should be on the hud imo, thats what a hud is meant for.
     
  11. captainAngry

    captainAngry L7: Fancy Member

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    We played this map tonight and had a pretty good time. The hid looks really nice and to me, was easy to understand. We had more than 16 people on the server (your recomended max) so it was a bit chaotic, but that was to be expected.

    Something needs to be done about the intel cap being worth different points. My first instant was that this was a terrible idea. In most dom maps, even when you are truly being dominated, there is no bonus for the losing team. Thinking about it more, I am sure you could work out a good formula given enough play testing that made it work.

    The information needs to be conveyed to the users better, Those messages that come up all the time are overused in maps and get ignored pretty easily. What you said here makes a lot of sense if you can pull it off right.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    cool! I'm glad you had fun with it. I'll try to implement the point notification like I stated for the next version.

    for the varying points, did it seem to vary too much? too little? what do you mean by "something needs to be done about the intel cap being worth different points...?"

    One other thing, This has DOM aspects but differs in other ways, the most significant one being in DOM maps if you cap all the CPs you win, in this gametype I don't want that to be the case, which is why I'm trying to find other ways to make it never a situation where the losing team just 'gives up'. This is more of a hybrid gametype, I chose the cp_ tag only because its not straight DOM (as defined by the Valve Wiki. Its more of half DOM half CTF (Steal the Bacon describes the intel dynamic better but that isn't a TF2 gametype that I'm aware of.)

    Problems I've seen with DOM maps are they are very confusing, especially since they generally have 7 or so CPs. This gametype I'm simplifying that to 4, but with so few CPs winning after capping all 4 would be too easy to accomplish, hence other gameplay mechanics making this unique...

    anyways I'm tired and rambling... thanks for your feedback ;)
     
  13. captainAngry

    captainAngry L7: Fancy Member

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    All I meant by "something needs to be done..." was that it was confusing to most of my members. For a while, we all thought that blue wasn't getting any points for capping the Intel because we all thought you got 3 points per cap. We would cap it, get one point, and then say the map was broken.

    It wasn't until I remembered that it varied (and confirmed with grim) that it made sense. The only reason I knew this was because I read it on this thread so if it is displayed in game like you described, it will make a lot of sense.

    It's hard to say if it varied too much or not with the limited play we had. I know we were down by quite a bit at one point and came back to win by a few points so that was good, but we only played a few rounds so it's hard to know if the balance is correct.

    The map got enough good ratings to get into our regular rotation so as we play it more, I'll try and chime in if I find it needs to be tweaked.
     
  14. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    awesome! thanks for clarifying, I'll definately put that notification in the next release, I just have to decide if it should lengthen the intel reset (30 count + 5 seconds for the notification) or if I should keep it the same (25 count + 5 seconds for notification)
     
  15. The_Ulf

    The_Ulf L6: Sharp Member

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    I've started building a similar map and in asking for help got pointed to yours by A Boojum Snark. So far, yours is awesome.

    From what I could tell of the brief playtesting I gave it, I'd say your HUD is pretty solid (and I might try to emulate it for mine) and the scaling flag point value is cool and emphasizes the intended possibility for a losing team to turn the game around - but as others have said is a little enigmatic.

    Adding the point notification will certainly help, possibly enough to eliminate most new-player confusion, but I'm gonna still go with a linear flag point scale for mine (5, 10, 15, 20). Mostly that's because it's easier for me to code and balance tweak, but also it feels like it'll be easier for both teams to always know what the flag is worth.

    Oh, and keep the same time thing (25 seconds + 5 seconds) - capturing the flag is what really livens this gametype so get it available again asap!
     
  16. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    yeah A3 I've decided to turn off the varying intel times, and see how it playtests on a large scale since I haven't really done that. the point notification is built in already and like you suggested is already at 25+5 seconds ;). I'm also going to add a 60 second setup time for both engies to setup and for people to read the rules.

    A3 also will have nearly completely new geometry, the middle building is the only thing I'm keeping.

    Also, I don't know if you're interested, I was planning on releasing the gametype entities for people to use as I'm trying to establish a good gametype in itself.

    EDIT

    Removed list of major things I've encorporated, because

    Spy's sappin' my idea!
     
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    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  17. The_Ulf

    The_Ulf L6: Sharp Member

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    OH GOD YES PLEASE! :wow: I would LOVE to see this become an official map type! (then we could get some official Valve HUD support) As I said above, I'm working on basically the same concept - if I could work off of your entities it'll save me so much time and headache! I'll be certain to credit you for the gametype!
     
  18. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    that's definitely not a problem, I've made the off to others in the past, to work on a map for the gametype and put my entities in it. I've put a lot of work into the entity system over the past 6 months and got annoyed when you showed up stepping on my heels :p only because of the work I've done. But yes my goal is to make a gametype prefab for others to use, and hopefully only requiring them to change the point values for balance. (size of map, distance of intel, etc.)

    One thing about what you were describing that I won't likely be doing is production (I coined that term rather than "Point" because that gets confused with CP) is not based on how many CPs you hold, it wasn't in EOTS but even more important, it widens the gap of winner and loser, once winner gets a 4-cap the intel is worth so much the game ends and loser has no chance. The other way around, where its worth more for holding less CPs, then you have teams purposely giving up ground for big intel scores. Both aren't desirable to me.

    The varying intel values was an experiment I added in A2, while I still like the idea, some do not, and I've decided to let it playtest without it to see if it is even needed.

    My gametype currently gives 1 production every 15 seconds for holding a CP, it used to be 30 seconds but people complained the rounds lasted too long. My intel is currently equal value to holding a CP for 1.5 minutes, so 6 production. This will need to be further playtested, but it about what it needs to be... The dilemma with intel score, is too little and its not worth it, too much and you only need to hold 1 CP and run the intel the whole game, I'm trying to balance it so if you try that, you lose to the team that held 3 cps, but not by a huge margin.

    anyways, if you do like that idea of a common gameplay that would be good, then we could have 2 maps with the common scoring. and also it would give even more balance testing to the gametype.

    Things the prefab would include, all the point entities (not including lights etc.) CPs, intel, spawn rooms with lockers and doors. as they all have inputs linked together, and can be easily modified.
     
  19. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    just to show progress on the map, I'm posting a couple pics. A3 will have a new design. It will be slightly larger to allow the CPs to be farther away from the map center. the Shacks between A-B and C-D have been completely removed.

    Here are 2 pics showing some displacement work, the first one was just a test, it has been deleted... the 2nd is just the base displacement, I haven't actually sculpted it yet, just sewed all the floor displacements to the wall displacements. This will be located between CPs A and B

    the first one, the one that was just a test, I know I went crazy on the indent... ;)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I also have the Red main spawn nearly completed, I'll post a screen next time I run a compile with it visible.
     
  20. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    Alright I believe I'm making progress... here's 4 screenshots of what I have currently

    Center Warehouse
    [​IMG]

    Red Spawn (under construction, I'm not going to keep the individual floorboards)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    View from small puddle inlet in riverbed area.
    [​IMG]