Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by ChronoTriggerFan, Aug 15, 2009.
Beta 1 release!
Feel free to post comments, feedback, suggestions, and the like.
How does the size compare with viaduct? To me it looks like its probably a little small and confined but we'll see with playtesting. I'm liking the symmetry and overal shape of it.
Give us something to work on for names, a theme, a visual cue you're going to use etc etc.
You definitely ARE improving at your layouts
Looks like an effective Layout and in a way, seems like KOTH's answer to Pipeline, Stage 2.
The top of the hill was based around the same size as Viaduct (about 1024^2). The sloped sections up to the hill are about 1600 units long, as opposed to Viaducts 1024 long slopes. I've planed the layout to remove unnecessary ground to walk through before getting to the action, which condensed the layout a bit. The second improvement I planned was the 45 degree symmetry line. This might center the action more at the top and less on the sides of the hill.
As for theme, I would like to experiment with the new snow assets. However, I've hit a snag coming up with a nice landmark, such as Viaduct's bridge or Well's rockets, etc. I wanted to get the layout in a decent shape before worrying about things like that. I do however like the idea of having water be a main idea/portion of the surrounding detail areas.
Well i guess the overview image is deceptive in it's proportions then!
Well, I ran throuugh it as scout (Yeah, big whoop!) and here are two things I noticed:
1. Took me 7 seconds to get to the point from spawn beelining it to the mid. That is kinda disconcerting for the people below, as they have very little time to prevent demomen from going to spawncamp them or something. I suggest you have very low respawn wave time for the people down, as the point also has some wicked chokes.
2. I want a way up to the overarea in the middle. There's ONE WAY up there, and it would probably provide a major advantage in controlling the point. If someone falls off of it, they have to run back to spawn to get up there.
Feels more like ARENA then KOTH to tell you the turth. :/
looks like a butterfly :mellow:
OF AWESOME :thumbup1:
Sums up my opinions quite well
Was fun and fast paced.
My major problem was that snipers were too powerful with long sight lines and the middle area near the cap point was a tad too small and thus difficult to build in as engineer etc.
Here are the big sniper sightlines (snipers included )
^Big sightline that looks directly at advancing enemies.
^same section, just with Supertoaster posing
^A popular sniper spot (shown by Scoobies who is also posing ) that had a well protected view onto the point and further back.
Anyway its a fun map, look forward to seeing future releases.
Maybe 15 minutes gameplay isnt long enough to tell how a map is (and also im not a very experienced mapper), but I felt like the whole battle was taking place in the immedeat area of the control point. The attackers were constantly waiting around the two rocks on their side, and pushing through the building above, and it got very dull, perhaps it was my fault for constantly setting up sentries. Engineers are quite powerful (although there arent many positions to set a sentry up), I built a sentry that covered the whole middle section and could only be outranged by shooting from the upper building, got me a couple of kills.
What I like about Viaduct is that you have to decide whether to defend it from your side or push, standing on the point means you're an easy target since there are a lot of different angles from which the attackers can spam or snipe you. Engineers also can only build sentries which partially cover the point OR can be outranged.
I'd say add some new areas that can be held by the defending team on the attackers side, so you have an incentive to push further, and a third way to the CP (maybe alter the area that youme marked as useless and add it there?)
I got stuck many times in this little hole beside the cap. Might wanna make the displacement a bit higher so you can walk up on the cp from the hole
I tend to disagree on this matter. What I hate more than anything in KOTH is getting killed before reaching the high action area, the hill. Encouraging teams to push the other team past their side encourages spawn camping as well.
The area that Youme marked "useless" is an alpha old. Now the opening faces the cp and is a decent place to attack the hill from.
But its a shame that half your map is only meant to be walked through, and not actually fought in (except enemy spies and friendly snipers, and maybe an engineer).
And what I meant wasnt actually pushing the attackers down the hill to the own spawn area, but actually just "around the corner". Viaduct has high level defensive areas behind the buildings that seperate a teams side and the CP. Like for example the stairs on the side with the concrete floor (with health and ammo). Attackers holding the upper area of the stairs have a good spot to control who's crossing the control point, so actually pushing them back is rewarding for the defense as well.
I've hardly seen someone who isnt a spy or scout push through the last set of buildings to the spawn area, so i think that problem is avoidable.
And if you keep it like it is I doubt it's going to be fun the tenth time you play it since you keep defending that one little area. But thats just my opinion/prediction
Yes the useless areas are now far from it in the new version a big improvement.
You can get caught between the pillars and the rocks. It's pretty annoying, I forgot to grab a screenshot though.
Perhaps an extra way to come to the CP from towards the back, via a tunnel or something might be useful, to increase the avenues of attack for each team and make it slightly harder to defend. Good layout however and a fun KOTH map.
Are there only two health packs on each side? I was only be able locate two medium packs on my side of the level. I found myself often wishing for a small health pack. The two medium packs were usually respawning and not available. I ran back to spawn a couple times just to fill up. I think those mediums could either be split up into smalls and scattered a bit, or the level could use one or two more small health packs.
I agree with ChickenLover on this, I mentioned this while playing the level and this has reminded me, there is a big health pack towards the spawn on the left but there needs to be a few small health packs and ammo packs located nearer the CP.
Night Tests Feedback:
Overall i really enjoyed this map, very promising to be a great koth map.
First, you might want to add a few small heath packs in some of the outer routes from the point, but not sure how necessary this is.
I love the layout, (the actual hill for koth is great).
The position of the control point i like, but its a little plain. I dont believe it is fully detailed, but i think you could do alot more with the point to make it more memorial and interesting detail wise, Once beta obviously.
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