cliffhanger

Discussion in 'Non-Standard Maps' started by Zeq, May 13, 2014.

  1. Zeq

    Zeq L1: Registered

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    dom_cliffhanger

    A domination styled map taking place on the side of a cliff during a snowstorm!

    The map features 5 control points that can be capped by either team, much like a king of the hill map with 5 control points. The goal of the game is for your teams timer to hit zero before the other teams. The more points your team controls, the faster your timer will drain.

    Here is a .vmf showcasing how the game logic was created in case you want to use it for yourself.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  2. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

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    this looks really good except i don't understand the point of the protruding platform. it looks like a helipad, but it's too small and it has those jutting pieces above it.
     
  3. Zeq

    Zeq L1: Registered

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    Thanks! Well the map is somewhat inspired by the architecture of the levels in the halo games, which is notorious for looking cool, but also useless from a practical perspective! Usually I care a lot for my maps to actually make sense from said practical perspective, but this time I decided to just go "over the top" with the design an just make something cool and interesting! Heck, the artstyle for this map as a whole doesn't really even fit the TF2 universe with all its gravel pits and farm buildings.
     
  4. Micnax

    aa Micnax I maek map

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    If you made that protruding platform into a helipad like Penguin said it'd make a lot more sense, but that's up to you. It still looks stunning either way.
     
  5. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    That's totally a Lockout clone, done in the TF2 theme.

    Don't change a thing, it doesn't need to make sense because it looks good.
     
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  6. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

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    honestly, this is pretty well themed for TF2, don't sell yourself short.
     
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  7. sevin

    aa sevin

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    Hey, had a flythrough of your map, got some feedback.

    - Raise your kill brush when you fall off the cliff a lot. It sucks to have to wait until you're almost at the bottom of the cliff to die.

    - The ambient_generic of the engine sound on those big spotlight props is a nice touch.

    - You need point_spotlights on the spotlight props, and try not to use a light entity for them, or at least a dim one, as those props have a solid back so light won't bleed behind it so much.
    [​IMG]

    - This is kind of picky but this glass texture is difficult to make out with your dim lighting at the far back point. I keep wanting to rocket/sticky jump through it.
    [​IMG]

    - The top exit of both spawns should be lit, kinda hard to tell what it is when you spawn.
    [​IMG]

    - Why are there trucks filled with dirt around mid? There's not a speck of dirt on this map.
    [​IMG]

    - Raise the angle of the beam above mid. It's nice to be able to sticky jump over it, so don't clip it, but it's not nice to have stickies and grenades and rockets streaming down at you on the point when you can't do anything about it.
    [​IMG]

    - You should put a trigger_push on the fans below the point, would be a nice dynamic element. It says in your b3 notes that you reduced the strength of the fans, but they're totally off for me.

    That's all for now, looks like a fun map and interesting setting for sure!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2014
  8. obsidiian

    obsidiian L1: Registered

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    really nice map, i might make another post later with pictures of some stuff im not feeling as lazy as i am right now
     
  9. Zeq

    Zeq L1: Registered

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    Thanks for the feedback! I'll look over some of the points you mentioned. The concrete beam has already been fixed in b8 so that you can no longer stand on it without sliding. I am still indecisive about the trigger_push for the fans. I actually think it is a cool mechanic that makes the map stick out, but at the same time it also affects the gameplay of the map. I removed it entirely some versions ago by request of some players who thought it was impeding gameplay. Many other player liked it however. What are your thought on such map specific gimmicks around here on tf2maps?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  10. sevin

    aa sevin

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    I don't think it's that gimmicky, it's just a nice dynamic element to have if you have fans in your map. I don't see how it could impede gameplay that much since that area below the point is pretty useless except for the health pack. I do see how it could be annoying to run against them to get into the health pack room since it would slow you down a little but I think there's a cool thing that could happen in the other direction: I don't have access to map so I can't test it, but if you run with the fans to gain some speed, maybe you could rocket jump straight over to the cliff point if it's already close. That would be pretty cool.
     
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  11. puxorb

    aa puxorb L69: Emoticon

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    I was actually thinking to myself in my run through; "man I wish these fans actually pushed you around". PLEASE add that back in. Even if it isn't strong enough to push the player off (have the trigger_push stop just before the end). I have a feeling that it will make the lower areas less desirable. At the moment they are just like every other area of the map, and by that I mean just another passage. I think the fans will make the map very unique.

    Speaking of the map being unique, MY GOD. I LOVE THIS MAP SO MUCH. I PLAYED IT WITH BOTS FOR 3 HOURS TODAY. I can't wait to play this on an actual server.
     
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  12. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    We played this with a pretty full server last night, map got generally positive comments.

    Only real problems is a few spots feel pretty cramped, there's a lot of prop spam and you often feel like you're running through a maze. People were complaining at different times it's either too good for scouts, and too limiting. Which is probably a good sign really, it means the map has a large variety of terrains.

    Center point is almost impossible to control because it's so open, I'm not sure that's really a flaw though and just a quirk of this type of map.

    Spawn rooms probably need some one way windows for people respawning, there was a lot of pyro spawn camping going on. Just giving people some warning would do a lot to help that.
     
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  13. Zeq

    Zeq L1: Registered

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    Thanks for the feedback, I'll look into it! Just got version b8 out though, so it will have to be for b9.
     
  14. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    Bots can figure out domination? That's awesome.
     
  15. puxorb

    aa puxorb L69: Emoticon

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    In my experience, they can figure out pretty much anything except arena (which doesn't make sense since its pretty much like koth) and payload race. Any gamemode with control points or a single cart the bots can figure out. However, they do like to all rush to one point and not care about defending anything other than their bay. So its a bit derpy.
     
  16. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    OK, now that I've played this, my main beef with it is the same one I have with most KOTH maps that have multiple control points: The "timers" count down at a variable rate, making them not actually timers at all. At least in those maps, it's not too bad because either one timer is paused or they're both counting down at the same rate, so at least it's clear who will win if no further captures are made before the round ends. Here, it's much worse because you can have both timers counting down at varying rates, so one team can have more time left on their clock but end up losing anyway, and the only hint that they will is that they have fewer points. Not that it matters much, because the points can change ownership so fast and so often that knowing who will win if no further captures are made is practically useless information.

    (Does this make sense so far? I feel like I'm not explaining it well.)

    I don't know what could be done about the latter issue, but as far as conveying information goes, I'd recommend changing the timer logic so that instead of counting down at different rates, capturing a point either adds time to the team's clock or subtracts it from the other team's. Or both. I was going to suggest having it actually calculate how much time would be left until it reached zero if the rates were adjusted, and then instead adjust the time accordingly, but that would lead to smaller and smaller adjustments every time as the round goes on. Come to think of it, that's already a problem; it's just obfuscated by the confusing timer setup. Adding/subtracting a fixed amount of time on every capture, or even a variable amount determined by how far ahead or behind the team is, is more in line with TF2 convention. You don't want to only add time, obviously, or rounds could potentially go on forever.

    And finally: I think successfully capturing all five points should result in an automatic victory. But that's completely subjective and I can't think of any real justification for it other than it feels like it ought to be the case.
     
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  17. puxorb

    aa puxorb L69: Emoticon

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    Hey Zeq, now that there is a points counter HUD element, you should think about changing the map mechanic from counting down from a timer, to adding up points to a certain amount. (Say, 1000 points or something.) It would solve my one complaint with the map; being that the timer counting down by multiple seconds doesn't really make much sense.
     
  18. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    this kinda map should just be in regular workshop imo

    sure its nonstandart but not a mod requiring nonstandart that you wouldnt put on a regular server

    its just after seeing first maps in here being dodgeballs and surfs i never looked in here again cuz it was outside my interests. but here it is, a cp variation
     
  19. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

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    This map is easily one of the most fun maps I've ever played.
     
  20. radarhead

    aa radarhead Hands out ratings like cheap cigars

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    I remember this map! Fun times as pyro.