KotH Clay

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by NuclearRadio, Aug 7, 2014.

  1. NuclearRadio

    NuclearRadio L1: Registered

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    I've learned much more about mapping from my failures on my other maps, and I've got a good feeling about this map.

    Feedback Please. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  2. NuclearRadio

    NuclearRadio L1: Registered

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    A1 Released
     
  3. HQDefault

    aa HQDefault ...what

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    Umm... The download link didn't send me anywhere productive...
     
  4. Acadium

    Acadium Playtest Extraordinaire

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    One of the problems I've noticed is that you have a setting called "Fullbright" on. This makes the maps look terrible, and carries over to other maps when the server reloads or switches maps. It affects everyone, and as you see with other maps, there is no setting like this enabled.

    The way to disable it is to place lighting entities in your map so as to give it something to work from. Start by making sure you have no leaks. Then place a "light_environment" point entity. Set it to something nice. Then light up the inside and dim areas with "light" and "light_spot" entities. This should fix the problem, and allow people to play your map (and following maps) without vomiting.
     
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  5. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    I can't see how to download this map. I think your download link is broken.

    As Piper said, your map is "fullbright". This happens when your map has no lights in it- the game automatically switches "fullbright" on so people can see what they're doing. Piper's explained it pretty well- the only thing I'd add is that the wiki has an excellent selection at https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_2_Sky_List- it looks like you're using sky_goldrush.

    As for the rest of the map, it looks very simple. Indoor maps are very hard to do, and I think there's some clever stuff going on here with deathpits, but I think your map needs more "stuff". More little bits of cover, more open spaces, more changes in heights. It looks like a clever basic layout, but very simple. Look at official valve maps to see how they do it- look at how Nucleus has several different height levels, how it uses the computers and railings for cover.
     
  6. NuclearRadio

    NuclearRadio L1: Registered

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    Geez guys, I have it on Fullbright for Testing purposes, geez... I'll fix the Download link now too..
    you guys are so picky..
     
  7. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Sorry- we get so many new people here, it can be hard to tell what people know and what they don't. People are much more likely to playtest and help you with your map if it's not fullbright though- it shows effort. It isn't much work to add lights to your map, and it makes the map look much much nicer.

    Because of what it does to servers, we don't allow fullbright maps in our playtests, so you'll need to fix it before we can do much to help you.
     
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  8. NuclearRadio

    NuclearRadio L1: Registered

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    Alpha 2 is released!

    This time it's actually playable (more or less.)
     
  9. HQDefault

    aa HQDefault ...what

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    This version looks a lot prettier! Great improvement!

    EDIT: Okay, after playing this map, I think I can give a fair list of the pros and cons I saw. (I'm not going to sugar-coat it, I'm giving it to you straight, or you're never going to get it done right)

    PROS:
    -The art direction. So far, the map is very pretty, and some more props here & there would make this map look fantastic. Not to mention, the cave lighting is done really well. It has a torch-lit feel to it :)
    -The point. The design kind of reminds me of nucleus, what with it being surrounded by a deathpit. So far, it's clearly not too easy to defend, not too easy to attack. If I had to complain, I haven't checked to see if you can put sentries on those ledges. If you can, put a func_nobuild. The spot would be very overpowered, and it would be extremely difficult to take it down, even with spies and demomen. The only thing that could really stop it would be an uber demoman. (but this point could be wrong, because I haven't tried it yet)
    -The health places. I'm not too sure about this, but the areas that you can find health are easy to get to, easy to remember, and not too plentifully placed.

    CONS:
    -There is no resupply. This doesn't make the map unplayable, but it makes it a lot harder. But it should be easy to fix.
    -The space. Now for size in general, this is a big enough map to work. However, you're forcing the players into 2 narrow hallways. That's literally why 2Fort is complained about so much. While this isn't as big of a deal with koth, it's still pretty bad. Might I suggest having the main area be put into a large hill, and have a flanking area to the left or right of the main structure. This gives more room for players to muck around and do there business. Heck, it would be a good idea if you made that ladder next to the full Medkit into a place where you can drop in. Also, the space problem will also make players spawncamp more :/ Because there is only 1 or 2 ways to get out. This is part of the reason why KotH_Harvest has so much spawncamping. This is probably the first design thing that you should fix. It will become a huge problem during testing.

    Nitpicks:
    -The roof of the main area is the same height as the roof of that block to the side. It makes players feel like they can walk there, but they can't.
    -The red spawn is blue.
    -There is a gravel pile and a wall next to the blu spawn, but not the red one.
    -The death pit flings your guy around. (but to be fair, I can't figure out how to get it not to do that, either)
    -The 4:00 time is probably your design choice, but it really bugs me :(
    -In the point area, you can just see the tip-top of the mountain, and it looks kinda ugly. use displacement or something to make the roof ramp a bit at the top, so you can see a bit more of the sky.

    Plain suggestion:
    The block should have some more of a gameplay use, rather than just a space filler.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  10. NuclearRadio

    NuclearRadio L1: Registered

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    Thanks for the feedback! :thumbup:

    I plan on making those ledges nobuild, and sloped, but with enough room to crouch along them.

    I'm going to add the resupply cabinets.

    the main area you said with the block that's the same level is going to be highly wooded and detailed, so it won't give the idea you can reach it.

    and I planned on a Third pathway going out left or right from spawn, leading into one of the Shafts near mid.

    I plan on trying to make the detailing uneven at the spawn areas. (but not affecting gameplay, hopefully)
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014