Changes to Yukon and Granary. Why?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Grup, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. Grup

    Grup L1: Registered

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    Sorry if this is somewhere else and I've missed it, but ...

    There was a change to Yukon. The center control point was moved up vertically to the bridge from where it was originally. Question: do we know why? Has Valve said anything? If anyone from Valve is lurking, I'd love to know.

    I'm sort of interested to know how moving it up makes it a better map, but, I'm even more interested to know what the process was that Valve used to actually go ahead and make the change.

    For instance, did it go something like this:

    Or was it more like this:


    Same question about Granary. A change was made to add an additional exit from the garage (hope that is what it is called) on that ramp.


    I guess I'm even more curious about Granary than Yukon. As that map has been around for quite a while (was it one of the originals?). What would cause them to make a change at this point after it has been around for so long.
     
  2. h3r1n6

    h3r1n6 L4: Comfortable Member

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    I am not 100% sure how it happened, but this should be the explanation:
    Comp players have been pushing for changes like that, and they were easy to implement, so they changed them. That Granary change was in the Beta for a while before it came into the actual game.


    The Granary change doesn't make that much of a difference actually. With the old Yukon, pushing on the point below gave your team a huge disadvantage, and will just get your players spammed to death. This makes the midfight last way too long. It is better now, but the midfight is still not good in my eyes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  3. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    I suspect it was more like

    Valve didn't make Yukon, though I guess it's a good sign you think they did. Though I do know Mangy likes statistics and stuff.

    Hey Mangy, what was your thought process?
     
  4. littleedge

    aa littleedge L1111: Clipping Guru

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    Yukon was made by our very own MangyCarface. Not Valve. He went on vacation though. I can tell you that, if memory serves me right, there was a version of the map where the point was on the bridge back when he was still testing it with us and 2F2F and other communities.

    Granary was changed probably because the mapper felt like it. Dave Riller, one of the level designers at Valve, must ahve felt the need to revisit the map. It had been put into the TF2Beta, and nobody complained, so he kept work on it and released it into the game.
     
  5. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Mangy's on "VAYKAY" so don't expect something too soon...

    But I assume that Mangy got feedback from people here, and other community members about it, and though it wise to move.
     
  6. Grup

    Grup L1: Registered

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    Actually, I was aware that it was a community map. That doesn't necessarily mean the original creator made those changes. (Or does it?) I wasn't making an assumption either way.
     
  7. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Valve won't change a map unless the author gives them permission to, or unless its something very serious that needs to be done immediatly.

    Mostly, Community contributed maps get changed by the original authors though.
     
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  8. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    Mangy did make the changes, although he hasn't explained why.

    EDIT: :O he must've predicted this question and that is why he made this thread!

    Granary was changed because that area was pretty bad for attackers; the low door focused a lot of spam and made the game slow down quite often at that point.

    Also: holy shit frozen your sig
     
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  9. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

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    lol if someone made a map like the 2nd quote, that'd be insane and wouldn't work. "mapping is an art, not a science" blah blah blah
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  10. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    but number crunching and empirical analysis can still help you a lot when fine tuning stuff, I mean have you SEEN mangy's pdf

    but yeah that's only for spawn times and getting a general idea of death hotspots, no point in anything more specific than that
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  11. StickZer0

    aa StickZer0 💙💙💃💙💙

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    I heard that while it was in development, the point jumped between being on the bridge and under it quite a few times. Some of my comp friends were quite disappointed when it was released with the cap under the bridge, they'd preferred on it.
    Guess Mangy just saw the need to change it back, then