KotH cenotaph

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Crash, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Introducing koth_cenotaph!

    Standard KoTH map, with a small "event" on cap. Set in the Egypt theme, the layout emphasizes vertical gameplay, while providing plenty of routes for all classes. The center tower has a hole running down the center to provide immediate access to the center point no matter what level you are on, at the cost of some health. A few med packs on the way help you top off at least before you hit.

    At the start of the round the center point is lowered down into a deep pit, below acid. On unlock it begins to rise up to the top, locking into place for the remainder of the round. On cap, the acid slowly fills in the center pit, quickly forcing anyone still hanging around out. It lowers again after a brief amount of time.

    First stab at a KoTH map for me, and I have a few concerns with it. First being scale. The distances aren't too bad, and I tried to make the run about the equivalent of harvest's. The worry I have is some of the height. I tried to reduce fall damage as much as possible where I could, but there still is quite a bit, but generally there is a way to get down without taking any, as long as you take the time to find it.

    Also, the map is mirrored rather than rotated, but initial bot testing showed it to be pretty balanced. But the mirroring might throw some people off. The layout I have wouldn't really allow standard rotation, so I had to make due.

    Any feedback is appreciated, I'm probably going to try to get some testing done pretty soon, so hopefully you'll get to try it out soon. And yes I know it is too detailed for an A1, thats just how I roll, I'll deal with the consequences later.

    credits:
    Youme - Idol Statue
    Engineer - Extra Egypt Textures
    Void - Nuclear Waste Texture
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2010
  2. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    Looks like it'd be difficult to tell what side you're on.
     
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  3. Mr. P. Kiwi

    Mr. P. Kiwi L5: Dapper Member

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    Wow, that is some nice work you did there.
    But, although you asked not to, the detailing doesn't really fit the gameplay - toxic in an abandoned old pyramid? I don't think so… You should reconsider your theme. That's how handy the not detailed a1 is, we could see what detailing you were going towards and stop you before it was too hard to change.
    But as you said:
    But other then that, it looks great!
    Keep up the great work. Hope to see it on EU gameday soon!
     
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  4. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Yeah I actually completely forgot to emphasize the sides a bit more. The easiest way now would be the giant pyramid in the skybox is Blu side, but that isn't as easy to tell without knowing the map.

    I do wish I had a better acid texture, I actually posted another thread about just that. It's sort of a temporary texture to get the point of "DAMAGE" across. For the most part my detailing is just textures, the bulk of what looks like details is pretty key to the gameplay. Like the view between the idol stand as you come up the stairs and the blocks for cover and places to hop up on. The skybox is just there because I was excited to see what it looked like!

    Thanks for the compliments though!
     
  5. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR 水素臭い

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    It looks pretty good, but yea, for a1, you should keep the detailing to a min.

    The idea of an event on the point is okay, but the fact its acid, not so great. Swarm of Scarabs, that make more sense...

    Should defiently put up for gameday...
     
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  6. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    I think my reasoning behind the detailing is that it's the part of mapping I enjoy the most, so detailing a bit as I go keeps me motivated to keep working on the map. I get to see results right away. Plus most of what I have is pretty easy to adjust later, or just as easy as it would be to edit a dev textured map.

    Also as soon as you want to make a scarab swarm model for me I'll throw it in. ;)
     
  7. Moose

    Moose L6: Sharp Member

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    I really don't like the cp being in a pit.

    People trying to stand on the point get spammed at from all angles, including straight up, and then are threatened with a deathtrap when they do manage to cap. I'd bet people are complaining about not being able to capture, and this would be the reason.

    My solution would simply be to turn the pit into a slightly raised area. You could keep the deathtrap by raining the acid down on players. Letting people drop down onto the point from any level is an issue no matter how I look at it, though. No idea how you'd be able to keep that in without players constantly worrying about raining pyros.
     
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  8. red_flame586

    red_flame586 L7: Fancy Member

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    Egypt is a difficult theme for non-attack defend maps, (whatever that is again), because of the difficulty of knowing what team is in which side. For starters, try using this, and make sure you've got plenty of signs.

    Also, the acid texture just doesn't fit the map, or really tf2 at all. If you've got to use that, try something like lava, though it's still probably not that much of a good idea.

    Apart from that, looks pretty good. The Egyptian texturing is very nice as is so good work.
     
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  9. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    I do have that texture pack, and defining sides will be priority on the next update.

    I actually did have that center point a raised area when I first started but I wanted to experiment with the raising platform. There is actually a decent sized gap around the edges that a lot of demo spam falls down into negating some of that spam, and because the lift is a func_door (right now anyway,) stickies slide across the stone part and get stuck to the edge. Granted the CP itself is stickable, but a much smaller target to aim for, at least. I could always remove the extra holes going up, but I really can't see them being used a ton. The highest hole takes sticky/ rocket jumping to get to or quite a few jumps up some stones. The second level hole requires getting up to that level (which is a bit of a commitment if you aren't a jumping class,) and then a couple jumps to get onto the platform with the hole in it.

    It will definitely be something I'll keep an eye on during testing, though.

    I will definitely be looking into getting a replacement texture for that acid if I keep it, as I would prefer a more muted dull looking tone. Kind of like acid that has been sitting there a long time. Maybe with some specks of something floating in it. Not sure what else I could put here, lava is always an option but I think that would look just as out of place. If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate hearing them. As of right now the pit trap is staying, but that could always change later depending on how it plays out.

    I really want to give the center point a nice panicky feel to it, and right now it only has a 4sec cap time. I'm shooting for a lot of changing of hands of the center point, and some quick gameplay around the center, with a few decent fights around key rooms in the map.
     
  10. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Thanks for the feedback from the gameday, just got home, sorry I couldn't make it there.

    A lot of the feedback is detail related, though, and I just wanted to remind you guys that it's A1. I'll make sure I look at everything when I get a chance though. How did the on cap hazard event play out? I had a feeling the side routes wouldn't get used nearly as much, wondering how to fix that...

    edit: Wow just watched the demo, I see my problems easily, but damn were some of you pretty harsh about it. Looking at sprout mostly here, there is really no need to be as insulting as you were over an A1 map. I know how to make a decent looking spawn, it's a box for a reason at this stage.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  11. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR 水素臭い

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    The map overall was really large and overscaled... what might help you get usage out of the side routes is making it smaller...

    The verticle heights are a great idea, but when there is a drop and then you fall right into a pit of death, thats just not the best of things :p

    I like the idea of the cap event, but it makes it tough for the team to try and recap it instantly... so either make the event something that allows for recapping quickly, or remove it.
     
  12. Godslayer57

    Godslayer57 L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Yeah sorry for being so harh about it....I will try not to be an asshole in future, just got a flu-ish cold and not feelings so well. Just fix the large wide spaces, the strange spawn camping the random death pit and you should be good. And again sorry for being an asshole.
     
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  13. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Well I appreciate the apology, I understand that when the mapper isn't there it is easier to pick on them, but damn man. Thanks for playing it at least. Just remember that mappers actually DO watch their demos afterwards.
     
  14. Godslayer57

    Godslayer57 L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Try playing gameday with flu and see how you feel .... also may i ask what all this about the gooish stuff is about? Why would there be damaging goo in an egyptian temple? Can it be something more related or add something that shows the reason why its there?

    Also on another small note, I think the outside sand isn't level in one area.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  15. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    The goo is a temporary texture for some type of acid, or even a scarab swarm that rises on cap. Basically just getting across "this damages you."

    The line you saw past the fence is where my skybox meets the map, it'll all be blended nicely when I finish, at least that's the plan.


    I had an idea to fix the scale of the map without having to re-do the entire level. Possibly a multi-cp KoTH variant. Perhaps a second CP in one of the side rooms. Both would have to be capped to have the timer count down. There would probably be a third hidden CP that would trigger this.

    Not sure how to let the other team benefit from only one capture though. Maybe a decreased spawn time or something else?