CP CD_ProtoType

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by HQDefault, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    A prototype test of my new gamemode: Count Down!

    This is just a Minimum Viable Product. Meaning any feedback should not be based on the map, (I really just made it simple but balanced, that's it) but rather on the gamemode, so I have the CD gamemode ready when I unveil it's launch map: cd_valleywash!

    Anyway, the way CountDown works, is it's similar to KotH, as it has one point, but has one 4-minute timer. When a team captures, the whole team gets a sweet crit boots :)

    But here's the kicker: it doesn't matter who captures at all during that 4-minute period, all that matters is that you have that point when time runs out. (And yes, there is still overtime.)

    Alright, have a good day :3
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2015
  2. KubeKing

    aa KubeKing Back home in Jupiter, things are getting harder

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    Oops, Prototype is already taken by another game. Sorry!

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Ynders

    aa Ynders absolutely gormful

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  4. Dr. Sasha

    Dr. Sasha L4: Comfortable Member

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    I recommend you make a serious map out of this gamemode, otherwise how can we critique the gamemode without knowing how it affects gameplay? It would also make the gamemode a little more known.
     
  5. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    There's nothing to pic. It's a big rectangle with a little bit of cover and 2 tiny structures. The map is literally just there to be a placeholder and be the bare minimum of what is necessary. Like MvM_Example
     
  6. Ynders

    aa Ynders absolutely gormful

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    Then why post here? If anywhere, this post would belong in Tutorials & Resources as a prefab. Post back here when there's an actual playable map.
     
  7. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    Because it's a prototype...

    And it is playable...

    OH FINE ENJOY YOUR SCREENSHOTS

    Actually, I was gonna put them up after I thought about it, I just procrastinated because I'm lazy :p

    Sorry
     
  8. radarhead

    aa radarhead Hands out ratings like cheap cigars

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    A gamemode of any type will only work on a balanced map. Here, no one could be sure if inbalance is a fault of the gamemode or of the emptiness of the map.
     
  9. Auwi

    aa Auwi Certified in best in fun

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  10. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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  11. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    Well, the map isn't meant to be tested with people. It's really just: "scrape some basic feedback with a bot test" sort of map. Really all I'm looking for is any odd behavior you ensue on the map (deliberately avoiding the point, etc) I'm okay if the map is a little imbalanced. Heck, since it works rather similar to a KotH map, I'll know how to balance offense/defense. I just want to know if there is a problem with how you play, or if you find certain thing specifically about the gamemode frustrating, i.e: last overtime captures.

    I would put this in a proper map, but I'm afraid people might be mistaking problems with the gamemode with problems with the map, and vis-versa.
     
  12. Auwi

    aa Auwi Certified in best in fun

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    Its literally the same thing, only difference is it adds 20 seconds on cap. Take my advice and map for gameplay value, not just gamemode value.
     
  13. Berry

    aa Berry Sharing is caring, and I don't care

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    I made a mode very very similar to this a while back, and I want to say it does not work. Once everyone understood that it was basically KotH with a single timer instead of two, one team would hide back in their base and build up ubers while the other captured the point. They'd wait for the time to get low, then rush out, kill everyone then cap the point; instantly winning easily because they were given more than enough time to build several ubers.

    See: polarbeam
     
  14. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    Well, that's why this prototype exists. I want to make edits to the gamemode before it's put into actual gameplay. I'm currently working on how to influence teams to go for the capture point.

    It may take some modifications, but anything can work with enough time and effort. I learned that the hard way.

    Here's one of the ideas I had: Forward spawns on capping the point. It may or may not add to gameplay.
     
  15. killohurtz

    aa killohurtz Distinction in Applied Carving

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    Forward spawns on KotH-style maps are generally a bad idea because they will make the point either too easy to hold or too easy to take, depending on which team gets said forward spawn. You need to focus on the issue that Polarbeam suffered from - find a way to force people into the action and prevent them from building ubers in safety.
     
  16. Moonrat

    aa Moonrat The end of an era

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    To make this custom gamemode work well, you are going to need massive changes! A forward spawn ain't gonna do shit. Imma suggest some stuff, and you can take it as you want.

    - The foward spawn is a poor idea, KOTH maps are already fucking tiny compared to other maps (excluding King....)
    - Holding the point when the time runs out, regardless of other captures is a shit idea. Like Berry said, Teams will just build Uber and such to prepare to take the point in the last 30 seconds or so. Honestly I'd recommend a change in how capping works for the goal.
    - Like others have said, making a fully functioning map would have helped a fuckton more, but then again, Berry did that over a year ago.......

    Sorry for my curse filled comments, but I figured it'd help.....
     
  17. Lopez

    Lopez L1: Registered

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    I can't see this gamemode working out, because the situation Berry described will always happen if you have a single timer for both teams. There's just no incentive for a team to risk capping the point mid round, and as a result there is no reason to fight the enemy team.
    I have no suggestions for making this work. Maybe you could have the timer start automatically, but that would still lead to a rush for the point at the last second.
     
  18. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    I could see this gamemode maaaybe working if it had multiple control points. Winning team is the one with the most control points owned at the end.
     
  19. Di Gorgonzola

    Di Gorgonzola L4: Comfortable Member

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    I don't really think crits on capture will help motivating the attacking team to try capturing the point. To be frank, I think it will have the opposite effect. It makes it scary to prevent a capture in progress or pushing spontaneously after capture, since there is a pretty big chance you'll end up dead from all the crit spam. Then I rather sit back in spawn, waiting for the buff to wear off.

    The only real solution I can come up with, is giving the defending team small buffs over time if they hold the point over a longer period of time, kinda like the flag in MvM. The attacking team would then have to face tougher opposition, if that stayed in spawn, building übers, than they would if they quickly tried taking back the point after a capture.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
  20. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    Alright, so, I've been looking at the things everyone was saying...

    First things first: Yeah, you guys are right. It really is all in the map design. I'll keep that in mind.

    Now, here's what I've been thinking: It's clear the main problem is medics building uber in spawn while the round progresses.

    So, I've been thinking of some solution ideas-
    A- place the point in a building near a cliff. Knocking an uber off a cliff is it's #1 counter
    B- make a door on the side of the point separating the capture area from the cliff drop off. During the last 30 seconds, that door comes down. This may just lead to everyone going uber airblast pyros, but you gotta admit that'd be pretty hilarious.
    C- IF POSSIBLE, not sure if it is, but if it is, then I will make standing on the point nullify your uber!

    A few other things...
    D- I like what Gorgonzola said. So, here's what's gonna happen: Upon capture, the defending team get's mini-crits while in a small-ish area around the point, but not if they are ON the point. If they successfully defend the point for 30 seconds, they also get a concherer effect within a slightly larger radius, again not effective while on the point. However, to counter this, attackers brave enough will get a full-on crit boost while capping!
    E- The point itself needs to be fairly easy to cap, both to counter defender's buffs, and keep the round interesting.
    F- A feature I forgot to add in this version is to make the round basically arena during the last 30 seconds. Respawning is turned off, and the round ends if the point is capped during this time, not to mention spawns are in fact opened up altogether, forcing the attackers to either attack, or become sitting ducks.