CP Castles

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by playnwinplayer, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    [Medieval CP] Castles

    This is a Medieval map, with two face-to-face castles. There is a large open center, with two trenches filled with water protecting two castles.

    I wanted to have large, open battles in a medieval map. There are balconies on the castle walls for snipers.

    I am not good at making it pleasing to the eye. If an artist or mapper would like to help, I would not refuse.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  2. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    So basically the map is made out of large open boxy areas and it's medieval mode?
    Hate to say it but i don't think this is going to play well at all, even for medieval map.

    Large open areas are never really that great in TF2 and even more so in Medieval mode where only two classes can shoot while others are stuck with meele weapons.
     
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  3. Jeremy

    Jeremy L11: Posh Member

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    The water not showing up and the lighting being weird could be because of a map leak. When you were compiling the map did "*** LEAKED! ***" show up in the compile window?
     
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  4. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    Well, the idea is to replicate medieval battles, where it would be melee, but there would be a few archers to be aware of. This is fairly realistic. It is before the advent of gunpowder and formalized archery.
     
  5. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    I'm pretty sure the lighting is my fault, but ill surround the whole map in a seamless skybox to make sure.
     
  6. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    TF2 is not right game for replicating medieval battles.
    This is class based FPS that is not realistic at all, if i want realistic medieval battles, i go play Mount and Blade or Age of Chivalry.

    Also don't seal the map with big box skybox, everyones framerates will die.
     
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  7. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    Why can't it be a good map and realistic? It puts no class at a major disadvantage, seeing as the sniper will have to fire accurately into a huge, chaotic battlefield. The melee classes will be equal, much as they are in degroot keep.

    The skybox will only be for debugging, not for real.
     
  8. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    It can't be good map and realistic, because TF2 is not realistic in first place. It is not made for big large open maps, medieval or not.

    And yes, it does put classes in major disadvantance. Heavies will be sitting ducks as they are slow classes, snipers can spam their huntsman across the map and crossbow medics can deal some serious damage because the arrow does more damage based on the distance.

    Just because it is realistic, doesn't mean it is good.
    Imagine if Valve made Badwater Basin identical to it's real life counterpart.
     
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  9. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    Well, it is not too open, and at the range it is, how can a sniper be accurate? And with the medics, they are not somewhat balanced, seeing as the crossbow does little damage as is, less than a melee hit on average.

    And realistic to the area is different than realistic to the fighting style and tactics.
     
  10. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Hm, yeah, I guess we don't know what we're talking about even though we test tons of maps every week and have been doing so for about five years. I guess we've never seen this layout and don't know exactly how it will play. Thanks for enlightening us. Let's get this into a play test so we can see just how great it is.
     
  11. ForbiddenDonut

    aa ForbiddenDonut

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    You haven't designed a realistic map. All you've done is create a long, wide box with big boring walls. Your "map" removes the environment out of the equation in TF2 and leaves it to a class balance system that is inherently dependent on its environment.

    How does anyone play Spy on this map? Or Heavy? Or Scout? Even Demoman is going to struggle against the ranged weaponry of Snipers/Medics because his charge ability was not designed to cover as much ground as you have provided.

    Study the official maps if you want to make TF2 maps. Even if you do make a medieval map, it's better if it's done right than a blank football field with tiny chokes.
     
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  12. Jeremy

    Jeremy L11: Posh Member

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    Take another look at DeGroot Keep.

    Snipers and other long-range classes get an opportunity to be useful because of the height advantage the castle brings as well as the sightlines leading to the control points (as opposed to the map just being a big empty space, ie your map), and at the same time short range classes can be effective because the map isn't very open - if you look closely there're rocks and things everywhere, as well as a big hill, allowing short-range classes to flank easily and not turn the entire match into a hunstman party.

    And at the same time, the map does manage to be somewhat realistic, or at least believable and immersive.
     
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  13. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    Do I detect sarcasm?

    Anyways, recently I have been playing on the server, and I noticed how the complicated maps, no matter the quality of the aesthetics, don't play well and get lots of complaints. In degroot keep, there is one way into the castle. Snipers overlook a large open area. And yet it is a good map. Doesn't this go against what you have been saying?

    I'm not saying that you have no experience in this matter, though. You may be perfectly correct. We will just have to see. But from my playtests, it has worked well.
     
  14. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    The "map" is not finished yet. If you add auto-balance, a full map will have about two to three snipers, based off of degroot keep averages, with around TEN foot soldiers. Add in the range and the TEN soldiers for each side, no sniper can work that effectively. They can blind fire into the crown, but that is what happens in the castle of degroot keep.

    If you account for the fairly long cap times, no range-based team will win. And once the middle point is captured, the ranged benefits disappear. There will be no good place to range from inside the castle walls.

    I do not believe this map will be terrible. But we will see.
     
  15. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    Like I said, it's not done. I have accounted for heavies and the slower classes, and plan to add some cover. And if you read my other post, the ranged only have a bonus in the middle point. And they can't cap it if they have no foot soldiers. So it balances itself out.

    Lets see how it turns out.
     
  16. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    I want to thank all of you who have replied to my map. I DO consider the advice, regardless of how it seems. But I don't make up excuses of how the map turns out. I believe this can be a balanced map. I believe that melee troops will play an equal role, and the ranged roles will only be important in the beginning. But, however it turns out, I want to thank all of you for helping me improve my map.
     
  17. Jeremy

    Jeremy L11: Posh Member

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    DeGroot Keep works this way because you don't have to account for splash damage (with the exception of the Ullapool Caber and maybe the Equalizer taunt), not to mention the fact that there are actually other ways into the castle but only certain classes can manage it.

    And yes, snipers can overlook a large area of the map at once from a considerable height, but since they are limited to only using the Huntsman, which fires projectiles rather than bullets at a speed slow enough for players to get out of the way quite easily and is therefore suited best for short to medium range, this doesn't give them that much of an advantage - only so much as to keep the enemy players alert and on their toes.

    If a map designed much like DeGroot Keep was created for normal gameplay, yes, it would be a sniper fest everywhere and a spam fest at the chokepoint leading up to the final point and generally it would play horribly.
     
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  18. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    Well, this is a medieval map, so the sniper has no real advantage, does he? The ranges are long enough where the Huntsman would only be able to fire into the crowd, as I have said before.
     
  19. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    You don't think firing into a crowd at range is an advantage?
     
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  20. playnwinplayer

    playnwinplayer L1: Registered

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    It may be, but the huntsman doesnt have damage by range, and the crossbow has no headshots, and both are not very accurate. So, overall , there is no major impact to the outcome.