Can i complete my map without light_enviroment(shading)?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Macanick, May 14, 2017.

  1. Macanick

    Macanick L1: Registered

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    I want my map keeping without light things and fullbright
    but i concerned when compiling without light_environment because it can make problems

    is it ok complete map without light_enviroment?
    if it cannot, can i make map like that?
     
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  2. Jsd

    Jsd L3: Member

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    But if you have Fulbright on a server all other maps that the server plays will be Fulbright and to fix it is to restart the server so you should not have Fulbright in you're map
     
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  3. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar perfektoberfest

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    It's only okay to have no light_environment if you have no sky (cp_junction, koth_occult, cp_hadal). Otherwise the sky not casting light will just be unnatural, why would you ever refuse to have sky lighting anyway?
     
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  4. Macanick

    Macanick L1: Registered

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    it's concept, so i don't need to make map that realistic
    i has skybox so is there no way to make map fullbright include skybox?
     
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  5. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar perfektoberfest

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    Don't have fullbright. It's ugly, and I mean real ugly, and the lighting is one of the things that make a map feel like a map at all, not just like a realistic one.
    Look, just don't omit it. You have no reason to. Have it so it's there.
     
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  6. Macanick

    Macanick L1: Registered

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    i already make map's alternate version that non-fulbright and it looks not that incredibly better because my map almost black n white textured (as i said it's concept) so light not affect to my map that much
     
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  7. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar perfektoberfest

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    Alright, if you're not accepting not having damn fullbright because of aesthetical reasons (they are sufficient. come on), here is a technical problem: No competent server operator will ever accept your map to be played, because if you play one fullbright map, every client gets stuck in fullbright and all the maps after yours will be fullbright until server and all clients restart or all clients execute mat_fullbright 1, which is a cheat.
    Again, the answer to the initial question is no. You can not complete a map without lighting, it's an extremely important part of both aesthetics and gameplay.
     
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  8. Egan

    aa Egan

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    If you want to have fullbright-esque lighting, but still with actual light entities and vrad you can try setting up a couple of 1:0:0 constant lights:

    Should be relatively easy to throw several of these around the map in big rooms to get quick lighting.
     
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  9. [Rx.] Christian Troy

    [Rx.] Christian Troy L4: Comfortable Member

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    Have you tried to compile the map the way you want it to see what happens?

    The worse that will happen is you have to delete the .bsp file when it's done or doesn't look correct after loading it to take a look. The .vmf stays intact the way you saved it and can always be changed at anytime. ;)
     
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  10. Frosty Scales

    aa Frosty Scales

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    I have never experienced this in my time as a server operator, and there are fullbright maps out there that are played on some servers. You aren't wrong by any means, but this claim is simply untrue unless I'm missing something.

    Example of fullbright map often played on servers with no real consequence: http://gamebanana.com/maps/176323
     
  11. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar perfektoberfest

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    The screenshots make it fairly clear that it isn't fullbright, the walls in fact look differently dark. It looks very constantly lit, however.
     
  12. Frosty Scales

    aa Frosty Scales

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    it is fullbright. I've not only decompiled the map in the past, but I've checked in console while playing the map as well.
    and if you really want I can just send more examples that are a bit more obviously fullbright and dont cause the problems you're describing:
    http://gamebanana.com/maps/135543 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=133270557
    both of them are very low-effort maps but their tf2 ports are played actively within several servers.
     
  13. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar perfektoberfest

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    What I can say is, hmmmmmmmm, because the server being left on fullbright is something that's proved to happen and I witnessed that myself? Well, hmmmmmmmm.
     
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  14. Frosty Scales

    aa Frosty Scales

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    because it CAN happen on a listen server, not an hlds server. on map change the flags on the command reset and no client can have mat_fullbright 1 active at all. I've played on and ran fullbright maps on my servers for years now. So to say it's "proved" is also just false.

    edit: for the client to keep the cheat through maps, it needs to have been set on the server and replicated, or the cheat flag needs to be removed by a plugin.
    [​IMG]
    there is no flag on the command to even replicate it to the client.
     
  15. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

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    "Fullbright stays on between maps" became common knowledge here because it was happening on our testing servers. It's possible that there's differences between how different servers work, or that its an issue that's been fixed a while ago, or something else. I don't even know if the issue still exists on our servers.
     
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  16. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    Anyway, if your map is made entirely out of custom materials and you want it to look fullbright for aesthetic reasons (say you're making it look like Tron or Antichamber or something), you can accomplish this by making every material UnlitGeneric instead of LightmappedGeneric, and then using a lot of constant lights to keep player models well-lit.
     
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  17. [Rx.] Christian Troy

    [Rx.] Christian Troy L4: Comfortable Member

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    Where did the OP state that they were running multiple maps? Map rotation servers are rare in TF2 these days anyways. There are some but rare compared to the 3k to 4k servers running single maps.

    Hence why I suggested they just compile it and see what it looks like. No one will know how it will come out just by guessing here or looking at it in Hammer.
     
  18. SmallBiscuit

    SmallBiscuit L7: Fancy Member

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    Except for the small problem I once had where I was messing around on a server, where the map happened to be fullbright... Decided to do some mapping and left... I compiled my map to test it after a while, and when I got into the map, it was completely fullbright...

    Yes, there was lighting...
    And yes, I do leave tf2 open while I map... (It's less time consuming)

    So yeah, even if it's just a single map played 24/7, it still may have issues...
     
  19. [Rx.] Christian Troy

    [Rx.] Christian Troy L4: Comfortable Member

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    Still seems to be a non issue as the OP did clearly state that they wanted their map at fullbright.

    Tip: Don't play another map in tf2 while editing another or reload tf2. Any undesired effects fall under the category of "Your fault".
     
  20. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

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    If you don't plan on publishing the map and will only be running it on a select few servers, then you can do what you want. However, if you want people who aren't you to be hosting your map, you should try to meet as many standards as possible, lighting included.

    Persistence issues aside, I'm guessing fullbright was implemented as a feature for debugging and was never intended for published maps, so there's less of a guarantee that your map will behave as expected. I don't know what those issues would be, but it'd be best to ensure they don't crop up.
     
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