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Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by alboon, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. alboon

    alboon L1: Registered

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    16
    Positive Ratings:
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    Map being used here - 217.163.22.60:27015

    Hi all, this is my first time here, an my first time creating a map. well kind of the very first time was creating a map for Red Faction :blushing: but anyways.

    Im posting this to get some feedback if possible, nothing is set in stone in this map.

    I've done some bot testing but for some reason the blue team always push for the win whiles the red team just stand on the middle point or if the blue team have it they just stand about waiting to attack anyone that comes for them. :S

    As I've said nothing is set, the textures can change the layout any at all. any info/ideas will be taken on bord :)

    Thanks for all you time :)

    - map now a Koth (was cp)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2010
  2. Omnomnick

    Omnomnick L6: Sharp Member

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    Just from the basic screenshots, it looks like you have major sight line problems, especially from the tops of those buildings. Snipers positioned on top of those buildings can see almost the entire map.

    As you said yourself "One thing i know will most likely change will be the spawns as demo man can spam bombs from the stairs behind at the back of the building.". Why didn't you change this before you released it? If you know bugs exist in a map, fix them asap.

    The map is very similar to Orange maps, it appears over-scaled and too open. For a first map, it isn't a bad attempt, but to get better you need feedback like this!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Darunian

    Darunian L1: Registered

    Messages:
    10
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    cp_build_a1

    Alrighty, first off, welcome to tf2maps.net. This place is pretty amazing, as it's the place where I find the best and most professional feedback for mapping. With that said, I decided to do my part to contribute, and so I'm going to critique your map here. ;) No hard feelings intended I'm just showing you things that concern me and things that need fixin. With that said, let's begin.

    The first problem is a combination of two things scale and sight lines. In this case I feel these issues are hand in hand. If you load up dustbowl or goldrush in the sdk, take a look at how many hammer units each area is and try to scale your map accordingly. Often when beginning it can be hard to judge distances and heights in relation to Team Fortress 2, but once you get it down through practice it should help.

    In this map specifically, I found a few problem areas with scale.

    [​IMG]
    http://img827.imageshack.us/i/cpbuilda10000.jpg/

    In this picture, the hallway(s) span the entirety of the map's sides. While flank routes are a very good idea, I feel that they are too long. As a sniper this would be easy sniping as people enter this long hallway.


    [​IMG]
    http://img812.imageshack.us/i/cpbuilda10001.jpg/

    In this picture, you will notice the spiral staircase leading up to one of the capture points. While the use of verticality can amazingly increase the "awesomeness" of your map, too much verticality will lead to class imbalances. For example, if I placed a sentry up on the top of those stairs, there is no way a team could get in there and attack because even if they ubered they would have no chance to make it to the third floor before it runs out. In addition demoman can easily camp that area with stickies making it impossible to ascend.

    [​IMG]
    http://img12.imageshack.us/i/cpbuilda10004.jpg/

    Now this image is particularly troubling. One thing you should research is how to control doors. By making an open spawn like this, I am easily able to kill a player as they spawn making it both unfair and unfun. One thing your spawn room should accomplish is allowing players to spawn safetly, and an open spawn will not work. Try consulting this tutorial (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/TF2/Creating_a_Spawnroom) for an idea on func_respawnroomvisualizers which block off spawns and doors which also help.


    [​IMG]
    http://img839.imageshack.us/i/cpbuilda10005.jpg/


    In this picture you can see the middle point where I've placed two bots to give you a rough idea of scale. As it stands, due to falloff damage from their weapons, these two bots would do minimal damage to each other. Most combat in Team Fortress 2, takes place within a very small range. (I believe it's 1024 hammer units by 1024 hammer units) with the exception being the sniper rifle, which due to its unique nature negates these rules. My suggestion here, would be to compress the map until it is smaller and therefore more playable.
    Also notice that I am standing on top of one of the third cp buildings in order to snipe these bots. This massive line of sight advantage will lead to severely imbalanced maps. Try to "section off" areas in ways similar to badwater. If you notice, in badwater it is impossible to see the entire map at once. Instead through the use of layout and scenary they have limited what one player can see at one time. Try going into those maps and looking at techniques they use to do this and try to emulate them.

    [​IMG]
    http://img822.imageshack.us/i/cpbuilda10009.jpg/

    In this image you can once again see how a sniper could easily dominate, however, I do like that you have added an open roof to some buildings lending them use to soldiers and demoman who rocket/sticky jump. However, something I've learned from others is that one should avoid the use of a light entity like you've done here. The problem it creates that you can see in this picture is the unrealistic glowy circle around the light and the surrounding texture. Try using a light_spot entity instead. In addition, there is no timer set up for this game to contribute any sense of importance of urgency to players. Not too difficult a fix, but it should definitely happen.



    With all that said, please realize that this feedback is no way way meant to insult you, I'm only trying to help and make you a better mapper. Currently I feel this map's design might better lend itself to a King of The Hill Game mode where you could retain the center point and side tunnels while removing the problems that the very high and to cap towers present. Hopefully this feedback will be useful for you as you continue to hone your skills. If you have any questions or comments about my feedback don't be afraid to message me on Steam or PM me here on tf2maps.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 31, 2010
  4. alboon

    alboon L1: Registered

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    Thanks for the info, will look into koth mode (dont know how that is done yet)

    Will most prob lower the tower to the same level as the other houses in the middle and higher the walls to get rid of the sight lines. also will turn the spawn points 90 degrees or something and look into add doors.

    so spot light enitiy is better then the normal light entity? also should fog be used at all in maps or am i missing anything major? apart from the timer, how do i add that? hehe sorry a bit noobish at this lol.

    thanks again. :)
     
  5. Hastur

    Hastur L1: Registered

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    You also might want to keep HL2 textures out of the map - It really just doesn't fit the TF2 art style.
     
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  6. alboon

    alboon L1: Registered

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    will do, just figerd the texure filter lol thanks :D
     
  7. nik

    nik L12: Fabulous Member

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    You should generally increase the scale on textures that you can clearly see the repeat.
     
  8. alboon

    alboon L1: Registered

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    Will do thanks, once everything is final.

    Any one know how to change the forum topic title? need to change it to koth_build or something like that hehe. :(

    :edit: Alboon Server - 217.163.22.60:27015
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2010
  9. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    Thread titles can only be changed by forum moderators. That said, I updated your thread title to fit with the board standards.

    As for the map.. You should work a bit on the cap zone/area. It looks very flat and in general those types of areas have pretty dull combat.
     
  10. alboon

    alboon L1: Registered

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    cheers :D an will work ont he cap zone was tryin to make it smaller due to falloff damage :( its hard lol
     
  11. alboon

    alboon L1: Registered

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    updated the centre section now dont know if u'll like it lol ironed out some wall issues if this goes no where i'll most prob start on something new :)