Brushes changing after re-loading?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Crash, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    So I'm working on a piece of complicated brushwork, lots and lots of vertex editing. I was planning on possibly converting it to a model afterwards, but I'm having a rather frustrating problem with it.

    Every time I reload the map, a large amount of the brushes seem to mis-align themselves. I was thinking at first it was possibly because I did clip a few angles which made some corners go off grid, but it's actually putting some of the on-grid brushes off!

    Am I just getting to complex with the vertex tool? I don't have any concave surfaces or anything, I've been careful about that.

    I really hope I don't have to start from scratch, as I've put about 2 hours of work into it so far. But I guess it happens...
     
  2. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

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    if they change upon loading the map, they most likely were invalid solids. this is hammer's way of correcting your solids.
     
  3. Svenporks

    Svenporks L1: Registered

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    From what I know, having an invalid solid will throw a lot of your brushes off the grid. This usually happens when you have a borked displacement or a brush that has had a lot of weird vertex editing.

    Try alt+P or checking if your big ol' vertex brush meets any of these: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Invalid_brush
     
  4. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I had a similar problem today, it does sound like an invalid solid problem. (which was part of my issue)
     
  5. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Well that sucks. Looks like I'm either going to have to start from scratch or try to salvage it somehow...
     
  6. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Trust me, starting from scratch is INFINITELY easier. You'll be trying to fix the fucker all day.
     
  7. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Since you were going to make it a model, just don't do the brushwork and make it a model now.
     
  8. Huckle

    Huckle L4: Comfortable Member

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    You can also just do a "check map for problems" before you shut it down. If you don't get any problems your map will likely be the same when you load it up again. If it's a temporary fix that you just need for game testing purposes clicking "fix" on an invalid solid might be good enough. If it's supposed to be permanent, vertex editing is likely not the best way to change it, try to start from a new block and clip it.

    That said, if you have such complicated brushes rebuilding is likely the better option anyway.
     
  9. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Because I'm not a modeler? I've tried getting into it, but I have too many time expensive hobbies as it is. I can do it in hammer, I just need the bastard to stay.

    I'd like to say what it is so you guys would realize how complex it was, but I don't want to spoil the surprise focal point(s) of the map I'm working on. It's large and organic, I'll tell you that much.

    Thanks for the help though everyone, it should build faster this time because I can use the other for reference. Although if anyone could explain this better to me it might help me out second time through:

    Basically manipulating multiple vertex points of the same brush on too many axis?
     
  10. Huckle

    Huckle L4: Comfortable Member

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    You can supposedly create models with propper straight from the brushes though I've never done it myself. No need to learn 3D modeling at all. I'm not sure if it works with invalid brushes though.
     
  11. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Yeah that's what I had planned. It'll work perfect, I just need to get the damn brushwork down! Thanks for the link though, couldn't remember what it was called.
     
  12. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Mmm, that looks like it could be problematic if you do something wrong with the brushes in the first place...

    If you need something specific, or an actual model later on you can toss up a request in the modeling and texture forum, someone might be able to do something for you.
     
  13. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Eh, in my experience so far people only tend to make models for the better-known mappers. I'm just about to open hammer and give it another go with a fresh mind and possibly the proper way to do it? We'll see...
     
  14. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    That's not ENTIRELY true. You just need to have a significant, well formed, and mostly finished vision and a map almost entirely made.

    The issue is that you can't go up to a modeler and be like "I'm just finishing my first map, I want to have a giant boob as the final point, will you model it for me?"

    A better plan is to finish your map, get into beta and start mastering your vision and then go up to the modeler "I have a well tested, mostly detailed map but I need my final point to be a giant boob, will you make it?"

    That'd probably get a better response.
     
  15. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    I suppose that could be true. Makes sense, people aren't going to want to help a map author who isn't even guaranteed to finish the map.

    And I just figured out that it was in fact from modifying vertex points on too many axis. Kinda limiting sadly, but I guess I'll just have to work within the limitations.
     
  16. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Also helps to know the modeler fairly well.
     
  17. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    I've got a friend that models but he has absolutely no interest in working on anything for TF2. :thumbdown:

    Also I'm already almost done recreating what I had. It's not perfect or nearly as complicated as the former brushwork, but thems the breaks.
     
  18. ardysqrrl

    ardysqrrl L4: Comfortable Member

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    LATE REPLY BUT I'm guessing you vertex manipulated your brushes into some faces being non-coplanar quads; you can fix bad brushes of that kind by simply clipping those faces across diagonal vertices. Use the clip tool in such a way to preserve both halves of the clip, and those naughty illegal quads become upstanding and virtuous triangles