Boundary

PL Boundary rc

honeymustard

L9: Fashionable Member
Oct 26, 2009
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Thanks for the replies. That choke was a big problem in earlier tests, but after adding the room above it with the windows, it wasn't so bad. So it might have just been a one off thing though. Also I didn't mention in the changelog that I reversed the stairway on the balcony so it favours red rather than blu now, which might have had a small effect (causing less blu players to go up the stairs and into the window room) - so I might change that back. Also as mentioned, if the hole in the window is easier to spot, it should help with the sentries around there, as I specifically added it to make it easier to take them down.

A few people said last needs work, purely because it's too similar to Badwater. This is definitely true but I haven't been able to think of any original ways of changing it. Any suggestions?

edit: Also someone suggested a custom explosion. I had a look over that tutorial (the images are broke by the way) and it looks a bit tricky. Does anyone know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who can make them? :p
 
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grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
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Mar 4, 2008
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I wouldn't have said this map was rc yet, but it is close.

Detail still seems sparce, but then a lot of it is just white snow and a large flank of sky due to the death pit.

Place more pipes on the walls, more windows, more overlays; also, on the inside you need more detail scenes/rooms. Currently, particularly the staging area, it's unacceptably detailed for rc status.

Edit: i think you can do a lot more with the skybox, the map is too white. White clouds, white snow, white/light grey concrete walls.... there needs to be more contrast.
 
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honeymustard

L9: Fashionable Member
Oct 26, 2009
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Thanks. I'm still working on adding some more detail in certain areas, though I'm very cautious about over detailing. There seems to be a recent trend of making maps look like prop hunt maps. Anyway, do you think you could take a couple of screenshots where areas need particular work done? Thanks.
 

3Dnj

Ducks
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Dec 21, 2008
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I really think it's a good map too. There some little things that hurt my eyes but it's not a lot :

- You should take care of too short fade distance on props that could be used like a cover for snipers and spies, like barrels and crate.

- The rock over the point on this screen :
thumb_pl_boundary_2.jpg
still look like plastic to me.

- The big grate floor between B and C could be better designed. It's look like just a giant grate put on metal beams and that's not looks natural.

- For the skybox, it's cool a the moment but could be awesome with some better detail (I was looking for watchtower)
 

grazr

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Mar 4, 2008
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...Anyway, do you think you could take a couple of screenshots where areas need particular work done? Thanks.

OK:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10000.jpg

Whilst RED are defending last they spend a lot of time facing these walls which are bare as bones. Not to mention you could use a lot more light underneath these platforms.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10001.jpg

BLU attack facing this giant wall of rock. Add a ledge like Icarus has done in some of Coldfront's cliff faces. Where i've added the red circle, you could add a tatty wooden building. It would be more obvious if you created a ledge-indentation for other details; rocks and foliage. Otherwise it's probably too high of an angle for BLU to notice. Either way, this is a horrible blank wall.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10002.jpg

It looks like you've only half finished this area. There are gaps in the environment and the windows are too uniform and unattractive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10003.jpg

The cart spends a lot of time at certain locations. This corner is one of the chokes. Red counter attack this corner frequently and are presented with a massive wall of white. BLU wont see this wall often but it isn't rendered behind the player anyway. Add some pipes coming out and descending into the ground (death pit). Or show a crane/loading bay door, or even one up a loading bay door with it half open and other details.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10004.jpg

Since you just have a white sky on most of your screen it's not very attractive to see a plain white wall too. Maybe add a pipe running along the wall under the catwalk above etc. There are also a large selection of overlays (which are less intrusive to the limited space).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10005.jpg

BLU pass this wall a lot. Maybe add some windows?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10006.jpg

Not aligned to the wall.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10007.jpg

Use a displacement and displace that left edge down so that the texture aligns. It looks horrible/place holder-ish.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10008.jpg

Increase light cast angle and brightness (last triple digit line: 200, change it to 1200 or add more lights at 450/600).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10009.jpg

Change skins, it's not pitch black out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10010.jpg

This has always bothered me. Look how boring that is. BLU spend a good 10 minutes looking into that abyss and is the area BLU will see the most because of your choke point. You wanna add something behind it like:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10011.jpg

etc. Use your imagination.

Finally: Your snow patches don't look nice and interact badly with the players. You need to better align the displacement moundss with the ground so that A) you don't have shadow bleed and B) players don't get stuck on them when they bump into them.
 
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honeymustard

L9: Fashionable Member
Oct 26, 2009
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Thanks! I'll work on these over the next week or so. "Use a displacement and displace that left edge down so that the texture aligns. It looks horrible/place holder-ish." That's brilliant - I wanted to fix this but wasn't sure how to do it (was going to make a custom texture just for it).
 

EArkham

Necromancer
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Aug 14, 2009
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Borrowing one of Grazr's images:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/grazr/pl_boundary_rc10006.jpg

The entire metal walkway bothered me design wise, and this pic shows the main reason why: it's mostly the metal mesh, there are even supports going directly into the metal mesh. You need a lot more metal beams so this looks like it'll support the weight of track, players, and a cart.

You have that really nice view there anyway, so you don't really need large spans where you can see straight down. Making it all solid metal (or wood) with framed mesh squares here and there would give more than enough view down. Think of the floor in red's initial spawn on pl_upward.

Kep
 

Jonny

L2: Junior Member
Oct 29, 2010
52
5
grazr has some good points, including the map needing a little bit more detail and interest overall.

I love this map, and the attention to detail on it. Especially the snow and icicles near the start. Aesthetically the very end of the map isn't great, and it feels like things go down hill a little. The amount of railing at the end feels claustrophobic and badly designed. Picking up on grazr's second screenshot, you could maby have that whole staircase inside the rock wall, leading to and inbuilt rock passage or a higher battlement or something.

Also earkhams point about the mesh supports, supporting the mesh. You could add more beams in. My point to add would be that the supports should be at more of a 45 degree angle, they look a little strained at the moment.

Otherwise fantastic map thats fun to play, especially the first half.
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
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Mar 4, 2008
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I was trying to figure out why there's not a lot of colour/light contrast in this map, despite the fact there is an overload of white stuff (mostly unavoidable); you need to go through your map increasing some brightness settings on your spot lights.

Most lights in Valve maps are 450/800/1200/1400/1600 brightness's. It looks like you're using the default 200 which means there are less light bounces, and makes the ceilings and walls really dark.

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=15271
 

honeymustard

L9: Fashionable Member
Oct 26, 2009
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573
Thanks guys. I'll take a look at the lights, that should help. As for the balcony, yes the design has been bothering me for a while. I basically took the really small ones from ctf doublecross as inspiration, though obviously they didn't translate well in this size. I'll rework it for the next version.

edit: I'm using 800 for every light (except the spawn ones). I'll play around with the values and see how they look.
 
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honeymustard

L9: Fashionable Member
Oct 26, 2009
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Here's some progress:

24enxi9.jpg

This is more of a concept.. might need some editing to look a bit more realistic. Added some more support to the balcony too (and windows).

2emlnkn.jpg

Snow mounds are part of the ground displacements now, and they're all walk-able. Added some detail to the OOB area. Might need to make a snowy version of the hazard tape..

rr37sj.jpg

Added a shack. Propper owns.

ajthg9.jpg

Other side. Need to switch to the lower detail tree model.
 

Jonny

L2: Junior Member
Oct 29, 2010
52
5
On the top screenshot, add another ladder to that drop or make it so you fall to a ledge instead of your death, I failed that jump afew times playing and it got annoying.

On the third screenshot, inside the blue shack, make sure the props can't be seen fading in and out. Extending the fade distance afew hundred units wont hurt and its annoying constantly seeing things appear.
 

honeymustard

L9: Fashionable Member
Oct 26, 2009
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I watched from your POV when you fell in there and added a feedback comment. You walked off the edge with a charged huntsman. Walking normally off of it will land you fine. I don't really want to add a ledge there in case of griefing engineers (was a big problem in the very first versions). I'll have a look at the prop fade settings there, thanks.
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
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Mar 4, 2008
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IrishTaxIDriver

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 27, 2008
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Looks fantastic, I really like the detail choices you made. I'd have to play it though to see how performance is.

Way to go honeyman
 

Arnold

L6: Sharp Member
Jul 18, 2008
283
242
Yes, very good work so far, one thing that bothers me though is the catwalk straight out of red spawn, it feels very awkward, especially with all those handrails.

I would suggest rounding the corners off to the outside so there's more room going around the hole with the stairs. But you might not have handrails models for that sort of geometry.
 

IrishTaxIDriver

L6: Sharp Member
Sep 27, 2008
271
149
Here's some progress:

24enxi9.jpg

This is more of a concept.. might need some editing to look a bit more realistic. Added some more support to the balcony too (and windows).

Actually I've got a bone to pick with this one. Whys that door with the container there? Its weird! Theres no real explanation or purpose for it. Also that wall is really flat regardless. Give it a little dimension.

Fix it moneyman
 

honeymustard

L9: Fashionable Member
Oct 26, 2009
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I said it was a concept! The idea is they're dumping the barrels into the pit (you can see them under the grating in that picture). Anyway I've updated it since then.