CP blackmesa2_beta3

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Dragonhill, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Dragonhill

    Dragonhill L1: Registered

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    Blackmesa2 is a redesign of blackmesa_final
    The map also features asset work by several other artists. Full credit will be given on final release.

    Blackmesa is a counter valve style map. It was never intended to look like a typical TF2 map but rather a blend of HL1 with TF2. Many assets have been altered to remind you of HL1 but not stand out too much. The map also has some single player elements from HL1. Because the G-man has removed or altered much of the hl1 functionality from tf2 the map has to bend some of the rules. The head crab will pop out a health pack when killed even though this feature is removed from TF2 (try to figure out how it was done).

    The capture times have been adjusted to lower the chances of 3+ hour matches. I may think about lowering the final cap times a little more but i want to see more game play before i make that move.

    And no, you cannot wear the HEV suits. God I get asked that allot

    Asset credits list - <if i missed anyone give me a hollar>

    (Dragonhill) - Logo, letters, sound edits
    (JV) - HEV suit, Lamp, various textures
    (Passerby) - Health dispenser

    *This guy makes allot of packs
    Alex Kreeger (Rexy) 256 Unit high curved I beam
    Spytech Arch I-Beam Pack, Forklift
    Chemical Containers, New rock models
    Solo Rocket Model, Valve Software's Scrapped Models

    (void/Rexy) Computer Screens Textured
    (Void) - nuclearwaste,Omega-Lambda textures
    (Apom) Rotating fan
    (Mussles89) Voice

    ~D
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  2. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I play on the first blackmesa a ton, it is fun, has flaws, but is fun.

    I've played on this one too (well, I DL'ed it and ran through it)...

    ~I like what you did with what was the vents in BM1, the conveyers work well.
    ~A looks really too crowded, and to get up onto that ledge is annoying for classes who can't do extended jumps...
    ~When you cap L and C, the headcrab spawns... interesting and fun idea, but if your going to do that, make it a non-solid model, I got stuck on it a couple times.
    ~As much as I enjoy sniping down the Long hallways of C and L, I also don't like the sightline...
    ~Adding a couple more area's (and more obvious areas) for when your trying to get it out the sludge under A would be best for first time players.
    ~For the spawns, they are still really campable, imo, adding another door to that same hallway makes it just too easy for a heavy or even (now) a sentry to cover... maybe allow for easier access to the upper vents/take it out into that little office across from the sliding doors that lead to the vents
    ~Clipping on some of the doorframes would be great too.

    Anyways, BM1 is fun to play, but what happened to eGO, I thought they were doing your testing?
     
  3. Dragonhill

    Dragonhill L1: Registered

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    Frozen,

    Thank you for the comments, I'll try to address some of them.

    I wanted more than eGO to test as this will be the last work I do on mesa. No major changes will be made. I know some of the map "seams" flawed but I have seen it played for several years now and these changes are for the best. One players flaw is another feature. The map "flows" well (at least for me). As for noobs the map was never meant for them. That being said the lower area is more noob friendly now. The map gives you chances, they may seam slight but they are there. Originally the water was not there and you fell to your death. noobs complained so i added water. Now i see more valve approved maps killing player by falling damage. Go figure. The dual spawn doors allow for a team to break a spawn camp. Yes, i good attacking team can camp a door but I will not design a map to completely help a team that gives up their spawn area. They have to work a little, thats all.

    The head crabs require hit boxes so you can kill them. If valve allows me access to the code i can change that. I'll lok into a fix before final release but if keep getting hamstrung but ommitted item functionality it will have to stay as is. A possible player clip around the crab might help but you will still stub your toes on them.

    All thing considered I think the map does a great job of using an existing HL1 level layout that was never meant for tf2. And circles with in circles is a counter tf2 map design. You won't see this again for a long time.
     
  4. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    two things

    1) If i was a custom modeller, i'd kinda want to be credited from a1 on.

    2) Use half-life textures again, and i rip your legs off.
     
  5. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Oh yes, this. I forgot about it. When i first popped onto the map I saw the video screens and though "Oh thats voids!" (right?) and was hopeing that proper credit will be given (same for the quantum mechanics overlays).
     
  6. Dragonhill

    Dragonhill L1: Registered

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    On final release folks.. on final release
    there are many more to be given credit. and i do post that fact.
    Right now i just need to find last bugs.. and some of that art could end up getting cut. I hope the artists understand that.

    I would also hope the thread stays on bugs. major geomtry changes or new feature requests are not planned. This map has about a week for bug submissions and then it gets a final pass.

    ~D
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. I-Fling-Poo

    I-Fling-Poo L1: Registered

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    Wow, cool!

    Going on my server shortly (like within the hour). We have a TON of "regulars" who play, and the server is usually full (24 players) between 9pm and midnight EST.

    connect tf2.blackcompany.com

    Thanks! I love BlackMesa.

    Poo
     
  8. Dragonhill

    Dragonhill L1: Registered

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    I'll try to log in tonite

    ~D
     
  9. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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  10. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    blackmesa 1 wouldn't have been so awful if it's cap times weren't reversed

    The center control point should not take 5 seconds to cap, and the last points shouldn't take 20
     
  11. Dragonhill

    Dragonhill L1: Registered

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    blackmesa 1 is a counter valve map in many ways. The capping times were one of them. The down side to regular valve map cap timing is that a team gets rolled quickly which is generally not good for 24/7 maps.

    But why are we discussing blackmesa1?
    weird
    ~D
     
  12. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Waitwaitwait-- You WANT Stalemates?

    Jesus shit.

    Pleas tell me this is more normal.
     
  13. Dragonhill

    Dragonhill L1: Registered

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    it was determined that players are more likly to leave a server if the average round time were low.. the longer the round time the more likily the server would stay full for long periods of time. It is true that some players do not like this but unless the fact is advertised the server would actually stay full.

    also, not evey one wants a round to end in 30 seconds flat. And as for stalemates, if a team actually works together it is easy to beat blackmesa. Generally it turns into a stalemate when both teams have a 30% or higher group of players that go lone wolfing.

    BTW, how long does 2forts rounds last? Thats a pretty normal map, right?
     
  14. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    Players will stay on balanced maps more than a unbalanced ones, just look how successful swiftwater is, or snakewater, or boundary, if your map is unbalanced and made stalemate on full server, the players will leave at some point anyway and not interested to play map again, when on balanced map they also stay and leave at some point, but are more than happy to play map again.

    IMO, unbalancing map for reason XXX is just excuse to be lazy and not balance anything at all.
     
  15. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Don't know if you've ever played the map, but I spent a day (~4 hrs) on the map and the game I joined into played to a stalemate, 4 hrs later.

    I am going to have to agree a little, cap times should be looked at.
     
  16. Dragonhill

    Dragonhill L1: Registered

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    I agree about balance vs inbalance. But are you saying a balanced map ends sooner?
    maybe I misread what you meant.

    From my data a balanced map with balanced teams end in stalemate. Which is why push maps are popular, because there will always be a winner/loser even if both teams have equal skill. Every notice that a majority of tf2 maps are not ctf?

    In the end it's a matter of taste I suppose.
     
  17. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    That is not true at all, for example cp_snakewater is balanced and fun map, does is end with stalemate when teams are balanced? No.

    Yes, but if you want to make unbalanced map with no interest to balance it what so ever, post those maps to gamebanana, not TF2Maps, we are not website to gather popularity on maps, we are website to improve and balance other people maps and make the fun to play on, there is no real point to post map here if feedback is just ignored.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  18. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Your argument seems to be tripping over itself. If stalemates are bad, you dont want them; you make a map to avoid them. Except, you've made a map to cause them. So you think they're good? Or you are willing to tolerate them to keep people on a server? In which case, why not perfectly balance a map.

    If a map is unbalanced, it is less fun to play. A game is more fun when you are winning or only just losing; getting steamrolled is no fun at all: steamrollering isnt much fun either. Balancing a map leads to more fun: unbalancing a map to allow for one team to trample the other is no fun for anyone. If you want a full server, run acheivement_idle

    Please present this data.

    That's not actually a reason, that's just another way of saying "I cant be bothered". Man up, and give people who've worked hard what they deserve.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  19. Dragonhill

    Dragonhill L1: Registered

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    first point: i would disagree that the teams were balanced during the win/loss. The designer points out that he made it for aggressive teams. Generally that means a single error by one team equates to a loss. A very easy way to do this is to have huge spawn times or incredible small cap times at the end points. But that could hold true for many maps.

    second point: As for input, I am open for ideas but many that have been suggested to me have already been reviewed. This is the "beta3" of a long list of variants. Purhapes thats my fault but really is not an issue. blackmesa2 cap times are not the same as blackmesa1. This map was not intended for 2 or 3 hours games. The hard part is trying to avoid "steam rolling" effect which happens when the final point can be capped by one player in less than 3 seconds. The last cap point time is where i'm leaning to tuning but it's a fickled beast.
     
  20. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    So wait, you don't want that better team wins because they manage successfully push trough the first two points and get past enemy defences?
    Steamroll is part of the game, where better team beats much worse team, nobody enjoys maps where better team can't win.